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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:49 pm 

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TM's speech: "Today, I am launching my manifesto ...".


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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:24 pm 
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... if your a pensioner look away now

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:36 pm 

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If Labour doesn't win (and the sour Blairite MPs will be to blame for this, not the excellent Corbyn) then this Country is setting itself up for a catastrophic fall.

The Tory manifesto pledges to erode fairness to a level not seen since the Victorian era. A totally uncosted manifesto by the Tories, with headline commitments to punish pensioners and destroy the savings of the squeezed middle who are unlucky enough to have elderly relatives suffering form dementia. And small print commitments such as controlling and regulating the internet (like they currently control the traditional media) suggests dictatorship-like control of people's lives. Meanwhile they want to scrap phase 2 of the Leveson recommendations that were needed to restrict the irresponsibility of the tabloids and the like. And there's nothing about Brexit. Because they are clueless as to how to proceed with it.

The extraordinary Labour manifesto on the other hand offers a once in a lifetime opportunity to change the course of a country crushed by the failures of neoliberalism. There are numerous commitments that will benefit everyone of us. It is so visionary that it's totally revitalised the political landscape - finally we can talk about positive policies.

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:15 pm 
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In the light of a depressing Tory manifesto I will have to reconsider my intention to vote for them.
To be honest it would be a bit like a turkey voting for xmas,why vote for the party who would remove the triple lock and your winter fuel allowance even though you have payed a fair amount of tax all your life and are not wealthy.

There is no political party that I feel represents me,so although I will vote, I am no longer sure who I will vote for.

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:21 pm 
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gandalf_the_green wrote:
In the light of a depressing Tory manifesto I will have to reconsider my intention to vote for them.
To be honest it would be a bit like a turkey voting for xmas,why vote for the party who would remove the triple lock and your winter fuel allowance even though you have payed a fair amount of tax all your life and are not wealthy.

There is no political party that I feel represents me,so although I will vote, I am no longer sure who I will vote for.



Think the Tories, or 'She' as we should call them now, are taking the Grey Vote for granted. I have never minded paying my fair share, even when self employed I didn't have the family Chihuahua as a site guard dog, Mrs Pogle as a Secretary and my old skateboard as Director's transport.

Don't mind if 'rich' pensioners get the fuel allowance or care of some sort, more interested in how much they paid, onshore and without avoidance or evasion during their working life! That is 'fairness', fairness is the base rock of all 'good' policies imho!!


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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:24 am
Location: Saltash (or Feltham)
The Pensioner issue is an interesting one as the Tories have tended to look after them. That said, I'm sure many hard working people would have loved a 2.5% guarantee over the last 5-10 years. The problem of course is for those Pensioners who are genuinely struggling. And it's not quite accurate to say the Winter Fuel Allowance will be removed when it will actually be means tested. Don't get me wrong, I have elderly parents and would be concerned, but it's importnat to reflect things accurately.

As for Justin's comments, it's a bit rich to suggest the Tory manifesto is uncosted when so much of Labour's is double/triple counted (Corporation Tax seems to have some magical properties where it can multiply at will) - and of course the re-nationalisation stuff isn't costed at all. Still, I'm sure Diane Abbott has the answers ;) .


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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:05 am
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Frank_Butcher wrote:
The Pensioner issue is an interesting one as the Tories have tended to look after them. That said, I'm sure many hard working people would have loved a 2.5% guarantee over the last 5-10 years. The problem of course is for those Pensioners who are genuinely struggling. And it's not quite accurate to say the Winter Fuel Allowance will be removed when it will actually be means tested. Don't get me wrong, I have elderly parents and would be concerned, but it's importnat to reflect things accurately.

As for Justin's comments, it's a bit rich to suggest the Tory manifesto is uncosted when so much of Labour's is double/triple counted (Corporation Tax seems to have some magical properties where it can multiply at will) - and of course the re-nationalisation stuff isn't costed at all. Still, I'm sure Diane Abbott has the answers ;) .


Frank, Labours' is fully costed and legitimately so - don't believe the Torygraph. There's a whole dossier with all the detail - have you read it?

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Pogleswoody wrote:
gandalf_the_green wrote:
In the light of a depressing Tory manifesto I will have to reconsider my intention to vote for them.
To be honest it would be a bit like a turkey voting for xmas,why vote for the party who would remove the triple lock and your winter fuel allowance even though you have payed a fair amount of tax all your life and are not wealthy.

There is no political party that I feel represents me,so although I will vote, I am no longer sure who I will vote for.



Think the Tories, or 'She' as we should call them now, are taking the Grey Vote for granted. I have never minded paying my fair share, even when self employed I didn't have the family Chihuahua as a site guard dog, Mrs Pogle as a Secretary and my old skateboard as Director's transport.

Don't mind if 'rich' pensioners get the fuel allowance or care of some sort, more interested in how much they paid, onshore and without avoidance or evasion during their working life! That is 'fairness', fairness is the base rock of all 'good' policies imho!!


Agreed Pogs I have no problem with universal benefits either,tax evasion,especially corporate tax evasion is a different matter altogether.

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Like football, politics enables people to see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Frank_Butcher wrote:
The Pensioner issue is an interesting one as the Tories have tended to look after them. That said, I'm sure many hard working people would have loved a 2.5% guarantee over the last 5-10 years. The problem of course is for those Pensioners who are genuinely struggling. And it's not quite accurate to say the Winter Fuel Allowance will be removed when it will actually be means tested. Don't get me wrong, I have elderly parents and would be concerned, but it's importnat to reflect things accurately.

As for Justin's comments, it's a bit rich to suggest the Tory manifesto is uncosted when so much of Labour's is double/triple counted (Corporation Tax seems to have some magical properties where it can multiply at will) - and of course the re-nationalisation stuff isn't costed at all. Still, I'm sure Diane Abbott has the answers ;) .


A 2.5% rise on a pension of about £8000 is not a vast sum of money and every little counts Frank,and most of us have contributed to that by our Ni contributions.

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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:24 am
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Justin wrote:
Frank_Butcher wrote:
The Pensioner issue is an interesting one as the Tories have tended to look after them. That said, I'm sure many hard working people would have loved a 2.5% guarantee over the last 5-10 years. The problem of course is for those Pensioners who are genuinely struggling. And it's not quite accurate to say the Winter Fuel Allowance will be removed when it will actually be means tested. Don't get me wrong, I have elderly parents and would be concerned, but it's importnat to reflect things accurately.

As for Justin's comments, it's a bit rich to suggest the Tory manifesto is uncosted when so much of Labour's is double/triple counted (Corporation Tax seems to have some magical properties where it can multiply at will) - and of course the re-nationalisation stuff isn't costed at all. Still, I'm sure Diane Abbott has the answers ;) .


Frank, Labours' is fully costed and legitimately so - don't believe the Torygraph. There's a whole dossier with all the detail - have you read it?


Nope I listened to the IFS.


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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:24 am
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gandalf_the_green wrote:
Frank_Butcher wrote:
The Pensioner issue is an interesting one as the Tories have tended to look after them. That said, I'm sure many hard working people would have loved a 2.5% guarantee over the last 5-10 years. The problem of course is for those Pensioners who are genuinely struggling. And it's not quite accurate to say the Winter Fuel Allowance will be removed when it will actually be means tested. Don't get me wrong, I have elderly parents and would be concerned, but it's importnat to reflect things accurately.

As for Justin's comments, it's a bit rich to suggest the Tory manifesto is uncosted when so much of Labour's is double/triple counted (Corporation Tax seems to have some magical properties where it can multiply at will) - and of course the re-nationalisation stuff isn't costed at all. Still, I'm sure Diane Abbott has the answers ;) .


A 2.5% rise on a pension of about £8000 is not a vast sum of money and every little counts Frank,and most of us have contributed to that by our Ni contributions.


I agree and hence my point about protecting those who are genuinely struggling, i.e. Living off £8000. But of course there are those that aren't as well.


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 Post subject: Re: General election - 8th June
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Frank_Butcher wrote:
Justin wrote:
Frank_Butcher wrote:
The Pensioner issue is an interesting one as the Tories have tended to look after them. That said, I'm sure many hard working people would have loved a 2.5% guarantee over the last 5-10 years. The problem of course is for those Pensioners who are genuinely struggling. And it's not quite accurate to say the Winter Fuel Allowance will be removed when it will actually be means tested. Don't get me wrong, I have elderly parents and would be concerned, but it's importnat to reflect things accurately.

As for Justin's comments, it's a bit rich to suggest the Tory manifesto is uncosted when so much of Labour's is double/triple counted (Corporation Tax seems to have some magical properties where it can multiply at will) - and of course the re-nationalisation stuff isn't costed at all. Still, I'm sure Diane Abbott has the answers ;) .


Frank, Labours' is fully costed and legitimately so - don't believe the Torygraph. There's a whole dossier with all the detail - have you read it?


Nope I listened to the IFS.

The same IFS that said Brexit would be a disaster Frank? Thought you and Boris thought them partisan, untrustworthy 'experts' best ignored :wink:


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