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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:39 am
Location: Plymouth
For what it's worth, I understand what the OP was saying. I'm not completely in agreement that I haven't enjoyed it but it's certainly been function over form in many ways.

Saturday, for example, we ground out the 1-0. Great – 3pts in the bag, another jump closer to promotion. We had a lot of possession and in the most part, completely dominated the game. I came away feeling like we'd made life too difficult for ourselves (with more impetus and urgency we could and should have wiped the floor with a very poor Morecambe team, and I suspect some of our rivals in the promotion race probably would have), but a win is a win.

If someone told us back in August Argyle could get out of this division if we didn't mind it being tense/'unenjoyable'/unglamorous, I don't imagine many of us would have complained. And there have been great moments and some brilliant performances too – don't get me wrong. We have a really great squad at this level and a significant number of players who would be able to adapt to a division above as well. Maybe we should be taking it to opposition more and dominating them in a more dangerous and attacking way more often, but as I said, a win's a win. And we've had a lot of wins.


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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Location: Plymouth
If things hadn't happened as they did last season I think we would have enjoyed this season more. It has been difficult to be sure we would get promoted after that experience.

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:45 pm 
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If we go up.( it's not over yet) will this team be remembered like luggy mk1 or warnock playoff team.... I don't think so. They not be anywhere near entertaining. They are a job done go home type of team and its hard go support that and really enjoy it. I hope we do go up and Adams can attract a few more players that will add to the enjoyment of watching Argyle

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:35 pm
I watch The Arsenal to be entertained, I watch Argo to see them win.......end of

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:40 pm 
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Arsenal usually make me laugh as well Frank.

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:46 pm 
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My recollection of Paul Sturrock's first promotion winning team is of an awful lot of pretty dull games that we won by narrow margins. Remember, Sturrcok would frequently bring Blair Sturrock on late in games and his primary contribution was often just to try to hold the ball in the corner for a few minutes. The football was very functional as is epitomised by some of the classic quotes from that era such as 'blood and snotters' or 'every point's a prisoner'. Given that we got 100+ points we must have been more consistent in that season, especially at home, but I really don't think that many of the performances were a whole lot more convincing (although they were perhaps less nervy to watch because of the consistency).

Some of the football played in the second promotion season (Sturrock/Williamson season) was much more fluid with a lot more goals and convincing wins.


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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:56 pm 

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IJN wrote:
Arsenal usually make me laugh as well Frank.


Bullying ? I was suspended for less......

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Carl Fletcher tried to make us a good footballing side, look how that turned out.


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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:16 am 
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Sturrocks team wasn't fantastic on the eye. Yet they did the basics well. They were organised at the back. When teams attacked us he constantly talk about shape and keeping our discipline. When they got a set piece they put it in a area where it was dangerous which is why Coughlan scored so many goals that season.

This current Argyle team don't have the same pedigree as Sturrocks team for defending or scoring set piece opportunities. The number of times a free kick or corner hasn't even got pass the first defender. Yet this is the easiest way of scoring a goal. Where are the different routines or imaginative set pieces? Its just slung in the box near or far post for someone to get their head to it.

Careys freekicks are/can be wonderful. Yet where are the variations? The dummy runs for someone else to have a strike?

For me that's how you win league two. Your organised and disciplined. The margins can be so slight and that is what set Argyles championship team of league two apart from the rest was their ability to make the set pieces count and defend them well. Its just about being a fit squad, which they are, and then taking your opportunity to put the ball in the right areas.


Morecambe played better in the second half. Yet when they got in a decent position the cross wouldn't beat the first man or it would go off the outside of the players foot and out of play. It wasn't even like they were pressed into mistakes as Argyle stood off them. They made very basic footballing errors.

I don't except scintillating football. Yet I do think as professional footballers that train each day you should be able to pass to a player wearing the same shirt 10 yards away. Saturday in the second half against Morecambe was one game of many examples this season at HP where Argyle get into the final third, panic and lose the ball easily. I don't except the players to waltz pass 5 players or put in a Beckham like cross. I just think when a player is in space they should be able to find him.

I don't think that is demanding too much or unrealistic. You might say but Argyle do pass the ball well? Do they? Yes they do have their spells like on Saturday for 20-25 mins in the first half, but the majority of the time they are playing safe passes sides and backwards. How many times have you honesty watched Argyle this season and said why they keep passing it back to the goalie, especially when putting him under pressure as the opposition chase him down? Its a regular occurrence. Sure it keep possession until McCormick has to try and control the ball and then punt it up field before being tackled. Possession then is normally lost. Any momentum Argyle had is then lost in that instance.

Ever since the administrations days we have lost our confidence at home. We play with a little fear. We tend to try and play our way into games instead of straight off the front foot. We have lost the ability to play just two centre midfielders as we need the third its appears to protect the defence and give the midfield extra support. Otherwise we seem to get swarmed. Its a reason why we cant often afford the luxury of two forwards unless we play a 3/5 at the back system.

People have said on this thread how the premier league has effected people's thinking about what the can realistically expect from league two? Yet if you look at today's modern football fan nothing else matters apart from the result. As soon as they win or lose they are on social media either singing the praises or taking a swipe at the manager. We wonder why England are so poor. It's because even now at the bottom tier of English football the pressure on a football manager is because they must get results. Managers simply don't have time to develop players. We often say it would be great to have a youngster come in to the Argyle first team. Yet Adams can't afford to take a risk on a player when he knows he has to get promotion.

You only have to see the reaction on here between a win and a defeat. In numerous games this season we have performed poorly yet lost, and dug out a victory. Yet the difference in reaction by the fans for both type of games highlights the fact it's all about winning. I mean literally, all about winning and l guess that's the sad fact of modern society.


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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:31 am 
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Exciting times ahead At Plymouth Argyle

On the brink of promotion

Easter is gonna be special I think :scarf:

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:19 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:36 pm
I truly believe that if our current squad had been assembled under Luggy Mark 1, and had played in our current way, it would have been regarded as as exceptional, and probably would have produced a similar points total.

It's easy to overlook the changes to lower division football over the past twenty to thirty years. I think even a good current national league team would hold its' own quite easily in the league two of the Luggy era. I recall mainly hoof-ball, more than three or four consecutive passes being a rarity, forwards selected mainly for height and bulk, all combined with awful refereeing by fat middle aged blokes.

Although the Premiership is often criticised because of the affect on home grown players as a result of say many foreign imports, I think it's helped to improve the lower leagues by forcing local talent, both players and management, to start their trade at our level, and as a consequence standards have improved. I don't believe trickle down works in economics, but it does in football.

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:53 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:33 pm
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mervyn wrote:
I truly believe that if our current squad had been assembled under Luggy Mark 1, and had played in our current way, it would have been regarded as as exceptional, and probably would have produced a similar points total.

It's easy to overlook the changes to lower division football over the past twenty to thirty years. I think even a good current national league team would hold its' own quite easily in the league two of the Luggy era. I recall mainly hoof-ball, more than three or four consecutive passes being a rarity, forwards selected mainly for height and bulk, all combined with awful refereeing by fat middle aged blokes.

Although the Premiership is often criticised because of the affect on home grown players as a result of say many foreign imports, I think it's helped to improve the lower leagues by forcing local talent, both players and management, to start their trade at our level, and as a consequence standards have improved. I don't believe trickle down works in economics, but it does in football.


So where exactly has local talent come to the fore as far as Argyle are concerned? There was a Scottish manager in charge then and a smattering of local players as well-in fact, with Adams [the Steve variety],Beswetherick ,Wotton, Evans and Wills/Broad from time to time there was more local representation back then. IMHO you also vastly underrate the standard of the teams of that era. For sure Luton had Howard up front but they also had players of great skill such as Valois, Boyce, Taylor, Spring etc-anyone who saw them beat Argyle at Kenilworth Road would testify to that. Seem to remember that Mansfield were quite slick as well with people like Liam Lawrence and Disley-even Exeter, who were a lower mid table side could play some good stuff;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex2syVARb_Q

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 Post subject: Re: This season (enjoyment?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:40 am 
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Metal_Green_Mickey wrote:

You only have to see the reaction on here between a win and a defeat. In numerous games this season we have performed poorly yet lost, and dug out a victory. Yet the difference in reaction by the fans for both type of games highlights the fact it's all about winning. I mean literally, all about winning and l guess that's the sad fact of modern society.


For most fans it has always been just about winning, I don't there's anything new about that?

When Arsenal were winning titles under George Graham they would glory in the 'One Nil to the Arse-e-nal' chant.

Sure they might prefer Wenger's style of football but many at the Emirates would I'm sure take Graham's brand of play if it meant they won the league again, and in a heartbeat too.

Look at the long ball systems which dominated with (relative success) through the 1980s as well. Ugly but effective.

Personally I am somewhat in the middle. Generally speaking, I'd rather we played some beautiful football even if not necessarily as effective (Shilton's team in 1994 is still my favourite ever).

However this season it is and has always been about results and getting out of this division, and Adams has provided us with a great opportunity to do just that. I think this is why the constant griping at performances by some, has proved a bit irritating to others who value promotion and results absolutely the most important thing.

Playing defensive/negative football & losing - unacceptable
Playing defensive/negative football & winning - acceptable
Playing great football & winning - desirable
Playing any type of football, grinding results out, and getting out of Division Four this season - An absolute must


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