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Who really should be blamed?

Mar 14, 2009
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8 games in and last night, even though it was a champions league game night, I thought losing 1,000 people on a Saturday gate crowd (that we had in the last few home games) may have seen a corner being turned in terms of a loss of faith in the team.

See I am not quite in the blame Sheridan camp for everything. I do think that, although I wasn't a massive fan of Hourihane, his departure had somewhat ripped the creative element of our side out. Not only this but he did start to get forward more and when you look at the transformation in Reid I think we might of seen the same with our former captain.

I think IF Sheridan knew Hourihane was leaving then he might of offered a contract for Young to stay. However, I kept hearing last night why didn't we keep Young he would of made of difference. Yet not since two years ago for me has Young had a run in the team where he played well and was a consistently good league two player. Even then he wasn't playing in CM but actually as a RM. It all went pair shaped when Fletcher and then Sheridan tried to keep playing him in the middle. Sure, the guy had some ability there but how many times last season or the season before did you think he was too "lightweight" in a two man midfield. Peoples memories seem rather short because when Hourihane and Young were together as a pair we often got over run in midfield and I remember in many home games watching the ball go side to side, like last night, when we played in the oppositions half.

The fact is even if we had Young he would be played out of position in a CM. He is what Argyle need in terms of get down the right side and get some decent crosses in because he could take a good free kick and cross a ball yet Sheridan never played him there and like I say in league TWO, not the CONFERENCE, he will be found wanting in centre Midfield.

Personally, a little bit of me blames the coaches. The back room staff of McCarthy etc.... I look at the way McCarthy played throughout his career. He was a decent player, but never had any great technical ability. He was part of the coaching set up at Ipswich under Paul Jewell and they were awful. Yet Mick McCarthy goes in with a new backroom team and transformed the team in a matter of months and did this with a number of the same players. Wotton is another. Great for Spirit, Determination and Character. Yet technical abilty? Skill? Composure on the ball? Yet these are the type of people training our team. They I would assume do the majority of training and training drills. Its not good getting rid of Sheridan if you don't get rid of these people as well. Otherwise the mess continues.

The players have to shoulder some responsibility. I watched last night, especially that second half, the ball go side to side and back again. No one having the courage to run directly at any players. No one looking for one-twos and trying to speed up the tempo. The players are decent players for this level. Their record says so. Yet if they are that good why are we not keeping clean sheets and apart from Reid, scoring enough goals. You could say players are being played out of position but some players need to buck their ideas up.

Banton is fast becoming the scape goat. Yet the reason I believe he is picked on is because most fans see he is one of the more talented players we have in our squad. Yet I believe his confidence has just drained away. Yet I do believe if you stuck him up top on his own he would flourish. I noticed last night Reid was getting alot of joy in the first half with one or two breaks down the right side. His power and pace caused the centre half and left full back issues. You might think what a waste sticking him out there but there are alot of CB's in this division that have physical strength and when in a battle we often see Reid, whether his fault or not, give away free kicks. He would destroy alot of full backs. At the moment for the sake of the team it isnt quite gelling so why not try something new. Having Banton play up top against lumbering league two CB's would cause issues.

Yet what ever the formula the players need to take more responsibility on the pitch. For a start they need to work out as a team a better way of starting football matches because half the time they are always on the back foot in the opening 20 mins. The say there is alot of team spirit so lets see it and for them to maybe motivate themselves to play alot better. Alot of these players need asking. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BETTER YOURSELF? Your in league two. If you cant perform here, in this division, with our football club then are you really going to make it in the game.

Finally, there is the Brent factor. I think that the honeymoon factor of saving our club is over. I for one will be ever grateful for what he did and how he stepped in. Yet now what we the delays in the HHP project and the current on-field saga I have to wonder where is the direction from the top. We are like a rudderless ship just happy to be drifting until some new rescue boat (or rescue plan in our case) comes along in order to guide us and help us complete what we are suppose to be doing. The club is just is so casual and care free and that just filters down I believe to the management, players and to us, the fans. Its like the people at the top just are saying you doing an OK job and not really reviewing the state of anything. There doesn't seem to be any pressure to achieve targets to any set deadlines. The only one who has given himself some pressure is the manager, by setting a play off target. Yet the board have said nothing. Almost like they would be happy with another mid-table position in our league. There doesn't seem to be a focus or a drive in terms of knowing how we are going to progress forward. Its all a little stale. Its all somewhat stagnated and as usual the apathy that sets in with this football club is deeply embedded once more as fans just shrug their shoulders, say same old same old, and vote with their feet.

If it appears that an lack of enthusiasm about the future has really started to rear its ugly head. The PAFC board must take some responsiblity for this as the HHP project seems to became less ambitious by the day.

The question I ask everyone is what is wrong with this city? Its like the airport. A city this size and we dont have an airport? Its like we just accept it because that's what we have expected over the years. Nothing but disappointments. Told by the people that lead this city that's its impossible to do and make work.

Its defeatism. The same that has happened with our football club. Our ambitions are small and our dreams are quashed. Told to be realistic. Yet realism seems to be cheap and on a very small budget that doesn't bring you any success.

Yet a club and a city this size should be represented by a decent standard football team.

Maybe in the end us, THE FANS, are the ones to blame for allowing and accepting that a below mediocrity type standard is acceptable for our football club.
 
Aug 8, 2013
4,614
334
31
Worcester
Good post MGM. Glad you mentioned the backroom staff. Sheridan has apparently been backed to the hilt by Brent, yet his own backroom staff from Oldham and Chesterfield were never sought out to accompany him at Argyle. How much is actually being invested in the team, and I mean on and off the field. Has Sheridan had to sacrifice parts of his off field staff to try and increase the kind of on field quality he can recruit? Luxury youngsters like Luke Young had to be released and his assistant was replaced in-house. Its not a complete shoestring but Argyle is clearly being run on the cheap.
 
Jan 4, 2005
8,815
1,041
NEWQUAY
spowell92":2lsiaiyk said:
Good post MGM. Glad you mentioned the backroom staff. Sheridan has apparently been backed to the hilt by Brent, yet his own backroom staff from Oldham and Chesterfield were never sought out to accompany him at Argyle. How much is actually being invested in the team, and I mean on and off the field. Has Sheridan had to sacrifice parts of his off field staff to try and increase the kind of on field quality he can recruit? Luxury youngsters like Luke Young had to be released and his assistant was replaced in-house. Its not a complete shoestring but Argyle is clearly being run on the cheap.

As cheap as Wycombe? I think not.
 
Apr 9, 2011
1,762
261
Metal_Green_Mickey":ibon1dif said:
8 games in and last night, even though it was a champions league game night, I thought losing 1,000 people on a Saturday gate crowd (that we had in the last few home games) may have seen a corner being turned in terms of a loss of faith in the team.

See I am not quite in the blame Sheridan camp for everything. I do think that, although I wasn't a massive fan of Hourihane, his departure had somewhat ripped the creative element of our side out. Not only this but he did start to get forward more and when you look at the transformation in Reid I think we might of seen the same with our former captain.

I think IF Sheridan knew Hourihane was leaving then he might of offered a contract for Young to stay. However, I kept hearing last night why didn't we keep Young he would have made of difference. Yet not since two years ago for me has Young had a run in the team where he played well and was a consistently good league two player. Even then he wasn't playing in CM but actually as a RM. It all went pair shaped when Fletcher and then Sheridan tried to keep playing him in the middle. Sure, the guy had some ability there but how many times last season or the season before did you think he was too "lightweight" in a two man midfield. Peoples memories seem rather short because when Hourihane and Young were together as a pair we often got over run in midfield and I remember in many home games watching the ball go side to side, like last night, when we played in the oppositions half.

The fact is even if we had Young he would be played out of position in a CM. He is what Argyle need in terms of get down the right side and get some decent crosses in because he could take a good free kick and cross a ball yet Sheridan never played him there and like I say in league TWO, not the CONFERENCE, he will be found wanting in centre Midfield.

Personally, a little bit of me blames the coaches. The back room staff of McCarthy etc.... I look at the way McCarthy played throughout his career. He was a decent player, but never had any great technical ability. He was part of the coaching set up at Ipswich under Paul Jewell and they were awful. Yet Mick McCarthy goes in with a new backroom team and transformed the team in a matter of months and did this with a number of the same players. Wotton is another. Great for Spirit, Determination and Character. Yet technical abilty? Skill? Composure on the ball? Yet these are the type of people training our team. They I would assume do the majority of training and training drills. Its not good getting rid of Sheridan if you don't get rid of these people as well. Otherwise the mess continues.

The players have to shoulder some responsibility. I watched last night, especially that second half, the ball go side to side and back again. No one having the courage to run directly at any players. No one looking for one-twos and trying to speed up the tempo. The players are decent players for this level. Their record says so. Yet if they are that good why are we not keeping clean sheets and apart from Reid, scoring enough goals. You could say players are being played out of position but some players need to buck their ideas up.

Banton is fast becoming the scape goat. Yet the reason I believe he is picked on is because most fans see he is one of the more talented players we have in our squad. Yet I believe his confidence has just drained away. Yet I do believe if you stuck him up top on his own he would flourish. I noticed last night Reid was getting alot of joy in the first half with one or two breaks down the right side. His power and pace caused the centre half and left full back issues. You might think what a waste sticking him out there but there are alot of CB's in this division that have physical strength and when in a battle we often see Reid, whether his fault or not, give away free kicks. He would destroy alot of full backs. At the moment for the sake of the team it isnt quite gelling so why not try something new. Having Banton play up top against lumbering league two CB's would cause issues.

Yet what ever the formula the players need to take more responsibility on the pitch. For a start they need to work out as a team a better way of starting football matches because half the time they are always on the back foot in the opening 20 mins. The say there is alot of team spirit so lets see it and for them to maybe motivate themselves to play alot better. Alot of these players need asking. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BETTER YOURSELF? Your in league two. If you cant perform here, in this division, with our football club then are you really going to make it in the game.

Finally, there is the Brent factor. I think that the honeymoon factor of saving our club is over. I for one will be ever grateful for what he did and how he stepped in. Yet now what we the delays in the HHP project and the current on-field saga I have to wonder where is the direction from the top. We are like a rudderless ship just happy to be drifting until some new rescue boat (or rescue plan in our case) comes along in order to guide us and help us complete what we are suppose to be doing. The club is just is so casual and care free and that just filters down I believe to the management, players and to us, the fans. Its like the people at the top just are saying you doing an OK job and not really reviewing the state of anything. There doesn't seem to be any pressure to achieve targets to any set deadlines. The only one who has given himself some pressure is the manager, by setting a play off target. Yet the board have said nothing. Almost like they would be happy with another mid-table position in our league. There doesn't seem to be a focus or a drive in terms of knowing how we are going to progress forward. Its all a little stale. Its all somewhat stagnated and as usual the apathy that sets in with this football club is deeply embedded once more as fans just shrug their shoulders, say same old same old, and vote with their feet.

If it appears that an lack of enthusiasm about the future has really started to rear its ugly head. The PAFC board must take some responsiblity for this as the HHP project seems to became less ambitious by the day.

The question I ask everyone is what is wrong with this city? Its like the airport. A city this size and we dont have an airport? Its like we just accept it because that's what we have expected over the years. Nothing but disappointments. Told by the people that lead this city that's its impossible to do and make work.

Its defeatism. The same that has happened with our football club. Our ambitions are small and our dreams are quashed. Told to be realistic. Yet realism seems to be cheap and on a very small budget that doesn't bring you any success.

Yet a club and a city this size should be represented by a decent standard football team.

Maybe in the end us, THE FANS, are the ones to blame for allowing and accepting that a below mediocrity type standard is acceptable for our football club.
Well said Mickey all this is the reason we are the largest City never to have hosted top flight football APATHY!!!!
 

Tugboat

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Feb 24, 2007
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All this 'were that big' 'too big for this league' 'biggest city' poo don't mean anything.

You earn it on the pitch by doing the correct things and getting it right on the day.

We don't earn it on the pitch, we aren't doing the correct things and we're getting it wrong on match days.

It's difficult where the blame lays entirely but I think the chairmans done his bit entrusting the manager and giving him what he wanted/needed within reason.

It's up to JS to deliver on match days and he isn't.
 
Jan 16, 2010
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plymouth
the manager and his coaching staff are to blame in my opinion.they work with them and should ensure that the players are ready to participate evenly against their opponents.we are second to the ball most of the time these days because their is no team spirit because the players are bored with sheridan,again.that is my opinion
 
Apr 4, 2004
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Manager/coaches.

But with a lot more thought and some direction from above, better choices could have been made on the recruitment of the manager and coaching staff.
 
Jul 7, 2006
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0
Steve Evans":hliain0q said:
the manager and his coaching staff are to blame in my opinion.they work with them and should ensure that the players are ready to participate evenly against their opponents.we are second to the ball most of the time these days because their is no team spirit because the players are bored with sheridan,again.that is my opinion

The buck stops with the Manager. He appears to be a bad motivator. Not surprising that he gets poor displays when he tells individuals that they are crap. No wonder players like Banton appear to have no confidence at all in their abilities.
 

Lundan Cabbie

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Sep 3, 2008
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Plymouth
I wonder if the same discussions are happening amongst the supporters of Millwall and Oldham Athletic who also sit 13th in their respective divisions on 10 points.
 
Jun 8, 2014
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Lundan Cabbie":3l1qo03s said:
I wonder if the same discussions are happening amongst the supporters of Millwall and Oldham Athletic who also sit 13th in their respective divisions on 10 points.

I wonder if they've witnessed such an abysmal performance against a (lets face it) Wycombe side who aren't that good, as well as the fact we've seen far too many performances just like that over the last 18 months. Funnily enough, people don't want to pay good money to go and watch the club lose like that.

Don't you have anything better to do? Lardy dah, you support a Premier League club. Wouldn't your time be better spent on your own clubs forum instead?
 

Lundan Cabbie

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Sep 3, 2008
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Plymouth
Paven":p9zaqa80 said:
Lundan Cabbie":p9zaqa80 said:
I wonder if the same discussions are happening amongst the supporters of Millwall and Oldham Athletic who also sit 13th in their respective divisions on 10 points.

I wonder if they've witnessed such an abysmal performance against a (lets face it) Wycombe side who aren't that good, as well as the fact we've seen far too many performances just like that over the last 18 months. Funnily enough, people don't want to pay good money to go and watch the club lose like that.

Don't you have anything better to do? Lardy dah, you support a Premier League club. Wouldn't your time be better spent on your own clubs forum instead?


Someone needs to bring a bit of perspective. Other clubs, including my own go through/have been through bad times. Wycombe are sitting third in the table so if they are a bad side you should find some optimism in that because not much improvement on Argyle's part is going to be needed to rise up this division.
 

Mork

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Oct 18, 2013
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Forster NSW
Who's to blame , Brent , his plans for the club have failed,without out any income to supplement the football side of things we can look forward to seasons middle table nothingness , I hope he's seeking new buyers, the apathy at the club is the worst I've known!
 
Feb 2, 2007
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I remember games when Young played on the right side and he was pretty poor. Not many, which is probably why he didn't get played there again! He wasn't a good combo with Hourihane in centre mid either.

Glad he's doing well and getting consistent game time at Turkey though.