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'NEVER AGAIN' - Now **UPDATED ** (merged)
- Thread starter N I Green
- Start date
C
Cult Of Personality
Guest
If the club is to prosper long term it needs to own its ground, build some flats and a hotel on the back of the new grandstand. The emphasis on club owning the ground and not some separate entity.
- Aug 2, 2008
- 3,469
- 22
edmonds200":3pjpnag5 said:
Correct the difference between past and present is JB is not chasing the world cup and being an ex banker knows how not to take chances.
at this bit.
N
northcountryboy
Guest
The club would be in a better position owning the ground.
Which one of us would be better off paying rent and paying off someone else's mortgage than our own.
Which one of us would be better off paying rent and paying off someone else's mortgage than our own.
Is the option still there in 5 years? If so then just wait. Agree with the AFT, if no definite plans for stadium and HHP then there is no need to exercise it now.
HC Green":3dnjtwov said:
For me it has to be linked to the redevelopment of the grandstand instead. From the statement...
I agree with that. However, if said clear plan and strategy is outlined, I'd be willing to support the purchase. There isn't any plan at the moment.
It's a tricky question. You basically need a crystal ball to decide in the future whether a) the council will always be pro-Argyle or b) Should JB buy it then it doesn't get sold later on to someone who turns out to be less than desirable as an owner.
Biggs":rbm4yvgk said:
I agree, but asking for what the strategy or plan (if there is one) is totally out of order according to some posters on here. How dare you want to understand the intentions of the custodians of our club. It's an attitude that I see on here too often for my liking - and I find it very concerning, it's provides a platform that could result in "an again".
just for clarity ..
Argyle are paying £135k a year rent in League 2, that will rise to a preset amount if in League 1, Championship...
any quotes on how much a grandstand will cost without additional funding... £10-£20 million ?
does the ground in its current state meet standards for league progression ?
If the club doesn't own the ground why seek funding for that amount of money ?
The council will not pay for a new developments so who will ?
is this a catch 22 where any developer needs to know there is a return of investment but the supporters don't want any revenue to be drawn away from the clubs coffers
supporters cant have their cake and eat it without a billionaire Chinese (other nationalities are available) investor, who wants to use Argyle as their new play toy...
my understanding is that the AVC could block any proposed planning development in CP or HHP ...
I know Mr Brent stepped in and saved the club along with the efforts of staff, players and supporters, but those debts have now been paid off, at some point Mr Brent will be seeking a return on his 5 year investment and hard work (although the significant amount of £800,000 debt & potential purchase of the stadium another £1M+) means there is debt of over £2m remaining, he is at the end of the day a business man and will seek a return -
I am not suggesting we roll over and watch as the same mistakes are made again.. they cant be as the people are different, the situation is different, but standing in the way of progression could also take the club to the brink of Financial oblivion - why plough money into the team if the stadium is not up to standards on reaching the championship or beyond - they have to work hand in hand
The statements reads "puts all its efforts in improving the facilities for spectators at Home Park and to backing Derek Adams and the team to achieve an overdue ascent up the Football League pyramid"
where is this money coming from ?
Argyle are paying £135k a year rent in League 2, that will rise to a preset amount if in League 1, Championship...
any quotes on how much a grandstand will cost without additional funding... £10-£20 million ?
does the ground in its current state meet standards for league progression ?
If the club doesn't own the ground why seek funding for that amount of money ?
The council will not pay for a new developments so who will ?
is this a catch 22 where any developer needs to know there is a return of investment but the supporters don't want any revenue to be drawn away from the clubs coffers
supporters cant have their cake and eat it without a billionaire Chinese (other nationalities are available) investor, who wants to use Argyle as their new play toy...
my understanding is that the AVC could block any proposed planning development in CP or HHP ...
I know Mr Brent stepped in and saved the club along with the efforts of staff, players and supporters, but those debts have now been paid off, at some point Mr Brent will be seeking a return on his 5 year investment and hard work (although the significant amount of £800,000 debt & potential purchase of the stadium another £1M+) means there is debt of over £2m remaining, he is at the end of the day a business man and will seek a return -
I am not suggesting we roll over and watch as the same mistakes are made again.. they cant be as the people are different, the situation is different, but standing in the way of progression could also take the club to the brink of Financial oblivion - why plough money into the team if the stadium is not up to standards on reaching the championship or beyond - they have to work hand in hand
The statements reads "puts all its efforts in improving the facilities for spectators at Home Park and to backing Derek Adams and the team to achieve an overdue ascent up the Football League pyramid"
where is this money coming from ?
I admire the intent of the statement and can see why key supporters of the club are very nervous. That said, I firmly believe that the club should own its own ground for a number of reasons, including:
- not paying rent and therefore invest in the team
- ability to raise finance if required as we expand and shoot up the leagues
- have control over what is needed to maintain and update the ground
- attract investors to fund the building of the grandstand
All of which, I believe will need a strong balance sheet to achieve this. I believe the AFT (and other groups) should focus their attention on not fighting the clubs right to acquire the asset, but to ensure that appropriate covenants are put in place to ensure that the ground cannot be sold to a third party and effectively ensuring that whoever owns the club owns the ground.
I would also push for the main football trading company to be the owner and restrict and intra-group transfer of assets so that the football club is not paying rent to a subsidiary company (which would be good for tax purposes and a way to extract funds from the football club to the shareholders by way of dividends.
I wholly expect the club to exercise its legal rights to acquire the freehold and would imagine the investment from Simon Hallett was a precursor to this. We should be the club's critical friend, but also place our trust in the intentions of those that have put their money in to make Argyle successful and also to receive return on their investment (the object of any businessman).
In summary this is precisely the time to take on greater engagement with the club, not walk away from the table.
- not paying rent and therefore invest in the team
- ability to raise finance if required as we expand and shoot up the leagues
- have control over what is needed to maintain and update the ground
- attract investors to fund the building of the grandstand
All of which, I believe will need a strong balance sheet to achieve this. I believe the AFT (and other groups) should focus their attention on not fighting the clubs right to acquire the asset, but to ensure that appropriate covenants are put in place to ensure that the ground cannot be sold to a third party and effectively ensuring that whoever owns the club owns the ground.
I would also push for the main football trading company to be the owner and restrict and intra-group transfer of assets so that the football club is not paying rent to a subsidiary company (which would be good for tax purposes and a way to extract funds from the football club to the shareholders by way of dividends.
I wholly expect the club to exercise its legal rights to acquire the freehold and would imagine the investment from Simon Hallett was a precursor to this. We should be the club's critical friend, but also place our trust in the intentions of those that have put their money in to make Argyle successful and also to receive return on their investment (the object of any businessman).
In summary this is precisely the time to take on greater engagement with the club, not walk away from the table.
Taxman Dave":2ns1l2l2 said:
Agree with most of that. My chief fear, should the freehold be purchased, is that the ground will be separated from the club within the network of Brent companies, ultimately increasingly the longer term possibility of entirely separate owners.