Page 141 of 142

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 09:49 15 Aug 2019
by Ave_IT
Lousy_Pint wrote: Exactly how I see it Mike. One reason I have always wanted to remain in Europe is too keep the US at arms length (irrespective of whether Trump or anyone else is Pres). But I fear your 51st state prediction is looming ever closer. Disastrous times!!

This is exactly the strategic problem with Brexit.

Can we have any real influence in the world as an unaligned country of 65 million ? Can we really enter trade negotiations with the likes of the USA, China, Japan or indeed the EU on an equal footing or are we inevitably going to viewed very much as the junior partner and therefore immediately be at a massive disadvantage. Then what do we do about the disputes between the big boys? The EU and US have very different views on things like food safety, product standards, environmental regulations etc. But they will cut a deal with each other and reluctantly work around their profound differences because they have to, whilst maintaining an uneasy stand-off as equals. But we will have to choose. The US will demand we adopt their standards and the EU will do likewise. Neither will have to let us work around it because they have more clout than us. Which ever way we jump it will seriously damages any deal with the other. That’s true not just of the US and EU but China, Japan or even the emerging blocs in South America, Asia & Africa.

Now call me an unpatriotic surrender monkey if you like but that is why I just cannot see how we stand alone trying to be everyone’s mate without an inevitable steady downward decline. If you accept that premise then we have to choose a premier economic & political partner to align ourselves with.

The EU is a world power by virtue of its economic clout – but that power is distributed amongst its members more or less in proportion to their populations and GDPs. So Germany is the biggest then a bit behind them come the UK & France joint second/ third then a bit behind us come Italy & Spain then the rest of the smaller nations ……. It means we are (or were) one of the big three hitters that could leverage the combined weight of the 28 members. Despite all the anti-EU nonsense spouted by the Daily Mail the vast majority of the time we got what we wanted because our interests were aligned – sure there were squabbles and occasional show-downs that made the headlines but mostly it was boring agreement. We are or were one of the main drivers of this world power and as such carried individual clout even with the likes of the USA, China, Russia by virtue of that fact.

But if we leave the EU in the end we may have to jump into the arms of the US – or rather we’ll slip bit by bit into their arms. We will be very much the junior partner and have virtually no real influence – not unless we literally become the 51st state and get to vote in their elections. All of the friendly noises from Trump is simply a short term strategy to use Brexit as a way to attack the EU….which he despises simply because he and the neo-Cons like him would obviously prefer to bully smaller countries individually rather than face an organised alliance. We live in the 21st century - not the nineteenth ....whatever the ERG seem to think.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 09:15 19 Aug 2019
by Martyn
As we are in a National crisis.

Surely, we are entitled to view the details of ‘operation yellowhammer ‘, for ourselves, as it effects us all.

So we can make our own minds up.

Why was it a secret ?, or is the outcome, for worse than it is.

It is also reported that the report of ‘yellowhammer’, is not the worst case scenario

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 09:28 19 Aug 2019
by signalspast
You can read it. It was printed in its entirety in yesterdays Sunday times. It was drawn up by Theresa's May's government as a worst case scenario. Now leaked by remain side old cabinet members. Its marked secret so whoever leaked it should be charged with breaking the official secrets act

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 09:41 19 Aug 2019
by Martyn
signalspast wrote: You can read it. It was printed in its entirety in yesterdays Sunday times. It was drawn up by Theresa's May's government as a worst case scenario. Now leaked by remain side old cabinet members. Its marked secret so whoever leaked it should be charged with breaking the official secrets act


No

It was leaked to a newspaper, why was it a secret, before it was leaked,

It is Government policy to take us down this stupid route, and the scenario, effects us all, so why was it a secret.

This is a report that was updated by civil servants, under Johnsons’s cronies, from May’s Government.
Still leaked by Tories . Why should they be charged for leaking something, that effects us all so badly, and it is government policy
It should not be a secret.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 10:30 19 Aug 2019
by signalspast
There are reports and signals everyday that are created that are not released to the public. Dont know where you got the Information from that it was an updated version because everything I seen including the report has said it was created by May's government have seen nothing that it has been updated. I would say it hasn't because it was leaked by ex members of Mays cabinet. If it was an updated version by the present cabinet they would not have access to it to leak it.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 11:56 19 Aug 2019
by Martyn
signalspast wrote: There are reports and signals everyday that are created that are not released to the public. Dont know where you got the Information from that it was an updated version because everything I seen including the report has said it was created by May's government have seen nothing that it has been updated. I would say it hasn't because it was leaked by ex members of Mays cabinet. If it was an updated version by the present cabinet they would not have access to it to leak it.
s

Look, we are in biggest national crisis since WW11. This government are poised to take us out on a no deal basis. Against our wishes, they have organised these reports, now we should be told, what is in these reports, and not kept a secret.

We are living in unbelievable times, (it is not about , some major road by-pass), these reports are about our immediate future on a no deal basis.

These reports were given to Johnson and his cronies, at the first cabinet meeting, an updated version, that is why Johnson announced a further 2 billion towards a no deal scenario.

Get real, we are living in a serious moment, and we should have all the information available, unless Johnson thinks we can’t handle the real truth about the disaster coming.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 12:04 19 Aug 2019
by Martyn
Also, I couldn’t give a flying fig, who leaked it, but thank you to whoever did. Give yourself a gong.

These reports should be for National debate, not kept hidden.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 13:56 19 Aug 2019
by Ave_IT
Was it really leaked though ….or was it just released into the public domain masquerading as a leak to manage expectations? It’s all old news in the sense we’ve already had comprehensive assessments released by the Bank of England, ONS and a dozen other fact-laden reports warning of the impending economic and social damage of a No Deal Brexit. This has the distinct whiff of a controlled release of bad news to prepare the ground and mitigate an angry backlash as the population scream “WTF ???!!!”

I imagine Dominic Cummings could now start ramping up the extreme scare stories about grid-locked roads, aircraft being grounded, insulin shortages, 30 or 40 or 50% food price hikes, petrol rationing, a sterling crises, a banking collapse etc etc. This will be roundly condemned as Project Fear Mk2 perpetrated by Remainer “collaborators”….. and probably some Remainers will leap on it and run with it. (Alistair Campbell was a master at this sort of thing).

So when we do crash out and the planes are still actually flying, the queues at the ports are ‘only’ several miles long (because of pre-Brexit stockpiling and businesses now avoiding the UK completely), and food prices ‘only’ rise by (say) 20%, and we can still get our fuel albeit at a sharp price hike, and the pound ‘only’ plunges by another 15% ……… it will be presented as some kind triumph and dismissed as a “few bumps in the road”. The inevitable sharp recession to follow will be blamed on ‘Global events’ – with any luck it might coincide with trouble in the middle east. They can then taunt the Remainers that did fall for it by throwing the more lurid predictions back at them. The treasury will have to spend billions to help mitigate the effects – look out for sheep farmers etc. being handed wedges of tax-payers money to compensate for mass slaughter of lambs but this will be offset by talk of the prospect of ‘jam tomorrow’ now we’re free to make these wonderful new trade deals with the USA etc. (which of course will never happen).

This is what they really mean by a ‘managed No Deal’. …ie. manage the expectations and try to a paper over the damage short term – then with any luck a No-Deal Brexit might not be the explosion the public were taught to fear but a long-term puncture they might be too stupid to really understand.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 09:54 21 Aug 2019
by Brussels Bureaucrat
Noted constitutional expert Ian Holloway said on TV last night that the new handball law is the EU's fault and that after Brexit we can go back to how it used to be.

Brexit in a nutshell.

BVRe: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 12:00 21 Aug 2019
by Martyn
Brussels Bureaucrat wrote: Noted constitutional expert Ian Holloway said on TV last night that the new handball law is the EU's fault and that after Brexit we can go back to how it used to be.

Brexit in a nutshell.


And to think he was once our manager, and some people wanted him back.

Thought he was intelligent ?

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 14:38 21 Aug 2019
by MickyD
Brussels Bureaucrat wrote: Noted constitutional expert Ian Holloway said on TV last night that the new handball law is the EU's fault and that after Brexit we can go back to how it used to be.

Brexit in a nutshell.

Oh. Em. Effing. Gee. Somebody please tell me that he didn't really say that. Please reassure me that nobody actually thinks like that, or my faith in the notion that humanity ever arose from the primordial soup will be severely dented.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 16:15 21 Aug 2019
by MickyD
Now checked. He did. Evolution is fake news. A vengeful God exists. Wibble. Wibble. Wibble.

Image

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 17:18 21 Aug 2019
by Martyn
MickyD wrote:
Brussels Bureaucrat wrote: Noted constitutional expert Ian Holloway said on TV last night that the new handball law is the EU's fault and that after Brexit we can go back to how it used to be.

Brexit in a nutshell.

Oh. Em. Effing. Gee. Somebody please tell me that he didn't really say that. Please reassure me that nobody actually thinks like that, or my faith in the notion that humanity ever arose from the primordial soup will be severely dented.


A relation of mine, said to me after the Brexit vote in 2016, that ‘Great, as last we will not have to take part in the Eurovision song contest, any more’.

A couple of other family members tried to explain to him, that Brexit does not mean not taking part in the contest anymore.

But you could not shift him from his view, and he is still convinced. He is a fairly intelligent man

Unbelievable