i think the speech by oliver cromwell when he evicted what he called the rump parliament can be laid at the door of both remain and leave in parliament today.
http://www.emersonkent.com/speeches/dis ... iament.htm
Frank_Butcher wrote:Ave_IT wrote:Frank_Butcher wrote:Ave_IT wrote: ...... and if the flavour of Leave on offer (out of the dozens) is 'No Deal' then its a BIG lead.
So the people are against it, parliament is against it , business is against it..... so How The F*** can this happen? How can that be democratic?
GIVE US A VOTE ......A STRAIGHT CHOICE NOW WE KNOW WHAT LEAVE MEANS,!!
Those on the Remain side often talk about 'flavours of Leave' and how the referendum was fought on false pretence. But it is assumed that Remain was/is the status quo - which whatever happens is most unlikely. So what would Remain mean in 1,2,5 years time....?
Nice try Frank – but comparing the utter obscurity of the ‘flavours of Leave’ with the possible future evolution of the EU (which we have been a key architect of for the past 40-odd years and would continue to be in the future) is like comparing a flight to Mars with having an extension built on your own home.
My point is that we now know exactly what flavour of Leave we are going to get – which is totally different to the versions we were sold.…… we’ve still got no idea what it will taste like but at least we would now have genuine choice to make. The referendum was bogus.
On the contrary. The polar opposite of your predicted Armageddon caused by no deal would be total unification inside the EU - Pound replaced by Euro, European Army etc etc. How many Remain voters would want that? There is a graduated scale of outcomes on each side of the argument. To my knowledge there has never been a debate on the consequences of staying in the EU - just an argument against leaving.
And this "we’ve still got no idea what it will taste like but at least we would now have genuine choice to make" is somewhat of a a contradiction, no? You see this is the problem - soundbites predicting dire consequences are continually seized upon because they suit the argument. Yet you yourself say you have no idea what no deal would taste like. I refer back to the FUD that came out last year about all flights being grounded - on to the radio comes the COO of one of the biggest airport groups clearly frustrated and dismissing any such suggestions.
No matter what happens, our future is uncertain - inside or outside the EU. The one thing that could be said of Brexit is that it has only served to increase that uncertainty.
Frank_Butcher wrote: Bogus nonsense? Absurd? I’m so glad we have the benefit of your inside knowledge of the EUs own ambitions.
But in the real world any of these things and more are a possible in the future. The probability levels might be quite low, but then so is the probability of empty skies over Heathrow. Still that’s not bogus nonsense is it?
Honestly some of the opinions presented as fact on here and other places grind my gears. And yet you readily admit you have no idea what it will look like.
Green_Matt wrote: There are lots of people here not getting the situation at all. I am at a loss to see how anyone could perceive the msm being right wing, for example. This is an absurd view to take. Broadly in favour of economic liberalism perhaps but in no way right wing socially or morally.
davie nine wrote: There is certainly a better chance of the EU negotiating a new deal if they KNOW that the only alternative is NO DEAL on 31st October.
oldage wrote: How do you know a No deal Brexit will hurt us more than the EU? We have never been in this position before. IMO they need us more than we need them.Time will tell but I am confident we will lwave on 31 October.
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