Harsh, but fair!

MHRA has approved the Pfizer vaccine for use from Monday.

Post from an American friend of mine:

We're still taking our belts and shoes off before we get on a plane because of a terrorist attack that killed about 3,000 people 19 years ago. This thing killed 2,885 yesterday and people won't put on a damn mask. It is a zombie apocalypse.

Serious question which has been puzzling me. What’s the purpose of the placebo on the COVID vaccine test? I can understand the purpose where you’re testing medication which has varying effects, so you can screen out those who think they’re better/worse, when in fact it’s their imagination. However with COVID you either catch it or you don’t, and a test proves it one way or the other. So why not select any designated group of people who are not vaccinated, and compare their outcome with those who were vaccinated? Why go to the bother of injecting them?

I’m sure one of you medical professionals will have an answer.

Serious question which has been puzzling me. What’s the purpose of the placebo on the COVID vaccine test? I can understand the purpose where you’re testing medication which has varying effects, so you can screen out those who think they’re better/worse, when in fact it’s their imagination. However with COVID you either catch it or you don’t, and a test proves it one way or the other. So why not select any designated group of people who are not vaccinated, and compare their outcome with those who were vaccinated? Why go to the bother of injecting them?

I’m sure one of you medical professionals will have an answer.

I'm not a medical man but I reckon that you may have answered your own question:

' .... so you can screen out those who think they’re better/worse, when in fact it’s their imagination. ....'

If somebody thinks they've had an injection, then actually getting the disease negates the placebo effect?/ (maybe?). tricky tho' as you said. If I took part, got a placebo, got the disease and died, I would not be impressed!!

I'd imagine (and definitely not a scientific fact, just my perception), the idea of the placebo is beyond just whether you get the virus or not.

They need to see how badly you suffer from it, does the placebo effect mean that you suffer less rather than the vaccine making the virus less deadly. They'll need to see transfer rates, people who had the vaccine and the placebo are likely to act the same, maybe be a bit more risk-taking as they think they're immune.

They also need to rule out side-effects of the virus, if everyone had the vaccine they wouldn't know if any reactions are because of the vaccine or just because of what's happening in the population as a whole. If the placebo group have similar side-effects then it's nothing to do with the vaccine.

It's just good science to have a control group which you've given nothing to to act as a baseline, confirming the results of the vaccine.

Pogles is right, would absolutely suck to die as a result of not being vaccinated, but I'm sure in the history of treatments (especially those for more deadly and debilitating diseases) many people died on the placebo when they might have been saved if they had the real treatment. Unfortunately you need the base-line to prove the evidence otherwise nothing would ever be made available to the population as a whole.

(Not to sweep the deaths of innocent people under the carpet as an unfortunate event, every death is a tragedy)

Serious question which has been puzzling me. What’s the purpose of the placebo on the COVID vaccine test? I can understand the purpose where you’re testing medication which has varying effects, so you can screen out those who think they’re better/worse, when in fact it’s their imagination. However with COVID you either catch it or you don’t, and a test proves it one way or the other. So why not select any designated group of people who are not vaccinated, and compare their outcome with those who were vaccinated? Why go to the bother of injecting them?

I’m sure one of you medical professionals will have an answer.

I would assume the placebo was more to assess s/e and problems with the vaccine.
so less whether it works. if everyone who had the placebo said they felt unwell as well as everyone who had the vaccine it would be unlikely to be the vaccine.
if everyone who had the placebo had no local reaction on their arm and everyone who had the vaccine did likely to be the vaccine

Just had my vaccine shot #1. Second part 08th January.

Just had my vaccine shot #1. Second part 08th January.

Best Wishes Quinny!!

Do try not to choke on a wishbone next Friday, there's a good lad!!

Just listened to Gordon Brown on the radio explaining how and why the government needs to get a grip in managing COVID. If you compare and contrast his handling of the 2008 financial crisis, with the current government mis-management of the virus, it makes me realise what political pygmies we are being led by. According to the world at one on radio 4 there is a growing groundswell of Tory backbenchers wanting to see Hancock resign. I feel that Johnson is the bigger culprit, constantly over-promising and refusing to move quickly as the science facts change. What a shambles.

Just listened to Gordon Brown on the radio explaining how and why the government needs to get a grip in managing COVID. If you compare and contrast his handling of the 2008 financial crisis, with the current government mis-management of the virus, it makes me realise what political pygmies we are being led by. According to the world at one on radio 4 there is a growing groundswell of Tory backbenchers wanting to see Hancock resign. I feel that Johnson is the bigger culprit, constantly over-promising and refusing to move quickly as the science facts change. What a shambles.

Always got to remember Gordon "saved the world" with his actions.

Problem with politicians is they always point at someone else and say "look at how they're mishandling it" and avoid the history of their mishandling of things.

Johnson's announcement yesterday was the fastest I figure they reacted to any science, but it wasn't immediate enough, reports today of full trains leaving London all last night just means we're on our way to Lockdown 3.

How hard is it to a make restrictions immediate? Why give people 4 hours notice to pack their cars and suitcases and run to somewhere else?

Cant rely on this "British common sense" they keep talking about.

[Biggs]

Have we all seen the St Blazey FC/Les Dennis/Walrus pub incident?

All the country might as well, go into complete lockdown, as we did in mid March, and hold on, until we get the call for our vaccine jab.

All the country might as well, go into complete lockdown, as we did in mid March, and hold on, until we get the call for our vaccine jab.

Lockdown frm January I'm sure. They've lost control again (as shown by the mass exodus from London on the weekend).

The public cannot be relied upon to be sensible, those of us following the rules have had our year ruined by those who don't care and they aren't changing.

Not a fan of this "numbers in the first lockdown were estimated to be higher than now but testing was limited" rubbish, its giving those who don't care about others an excuse.

Firm lockdown, police the streets, get the military involved and start focusing testing and vaccinations to clear "green zones".

In 2 weeks all of Cornwall could be tested, cases isolated then move onto Devon, bit by bit clearing the country.