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What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 19:29 02 Apr 2020
by mervyn
I usually solve the world’s problems whilst mowing the lawn, and today I pondered on the likely outcomes from the pandemic.

Firstly it seems to me we are going to need to rethink how we run our economy. With a large number of self employed and small business’s almost starting all over again, they’re going to need huge continuing support, as will the rise in unemployed whose employer didn’t survive the recession. Hopefully the ‘we’re all in this together’ mentality will last long enough for us all to accept the inevitable rise in taxation which will be necessary to see these people through.

Surely our whole approach to funding of the caring services will need a new approach, and again I see no alternative to Scandinavian style taxation levels to get us where we need to be. It begs the question of whether the most extreme right wing government post-war is up to such a volte-face.

I also pondered Brexit. I’m not looking to overturn the decision, but surely this would be the daftest time possible to turn our back on our biggest customer base and future market potential. A delay of at least two years, or to place ourselves on associate membership on current terms for, say, five years would be a sensible move.

Finally, the world scene. The reaction of Trump, Victor Orban, Putin, is scary, and I have little confidence of a truly international consensus, as was achieved under Gordon Brown’s leadership after the financial crash. The G7 on-line meeting proved an absolute waste of time.

So, what does everybody think?

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 12:30 03 Apr 2020
by MickyD
I think there'll be all sorts of knock-on consequences, lasting years or even decades, that we haven't even thought of yet; but one thing seems certain: irony of ironies, what we've come to know as capitalism and "our way of life" can only be saved by a gigantic "socialist" reset.

As for Brexit: yes, surely there must be a lengthy delay now, although I understand that legislation must be passed by 30th June for that to happen.

As I worried about the other week on the Coronavirus thread, as sure as night follows day we're seeing autocrats, and wannabe autocrats, using the situation to sow xenophobia (cos there's just not enough of that around already) and to tighten their grip on their own people. It's not going to be pretty.

Speaking of which: I'd love to think that the world is going to emerge kinder and more considerate and more environmentally aware at the end of this; but the human race as a whole just doesn't work like that. I really fear for social order worldwide as this crisis drags on and the bodies pile up and the money and the food run low.

And here's another cheery thought: if you're a terrorist or a hardcore anarchist, what better time to make a concerted effort to crash the internet good and proper? Even at the best of times that would cause worldwide chaos within days, since just about everything, including food and medical supply chains, now relies on it. It's bothered me for years that almost the whole world has come to depend so heavily (materially and psychologically) on that single technology - but imagine if it disappeared now.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 14:13 03 Apr 2020
by Frank_Butcher
Fear not. It's in good hands.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 14:24 03 Apr 2020
by Don't_Panic
As evidenced in some of the comments above, there’s as much chance of the left taking political advantage post corona as the ‘extreme‘ right wing. What would be lovely to see (but sadly unlikely) is a collective will to make things better & a ditching of sides/parties/wings. It’s a simplistic idea but there’s too much fandom/support, almost at a sports team level, towards certain parties/leaders that is never going to bring everyone together for the greater good. I sadly don’t see the world changing enough after this, it may appear negative but it’s not what humans do, history tells us that.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 14:38 03 Apr 2020
by MickyD
Don't_Panic wrote: As evidenced in some of the comments above, there’s as much chance of the left taking political advantage post corona as the ‘extreme‘ right wing. What would be lovely to see (but sadly unlikely) is a collective will to make things better & a ditching of sides/parties/wings. It’s a simplistic idea but there’s too much fandom/support, almost at a sports team level, towards certain parties/leaders that is never going to bring everyone together for the greater good. I sadly don’t see the world changing enough after this, it may appear negative but it’s not what humans do, history tells us that.

Yes, that latter part is pretty much what I said myself.

As for the supposed politicisation (and fandom - really?) - I think that's what you're doing. Merv simply stated that this current government is, in modern British terms (not, say, 1930s German terms!), the most extreme right-wing we've had in a long time. That's just going by their policies - just as you would probably say that Corbyn is extremely left wing, which is fine. In modern British terms, he is.

What would you call multi-trillion dollar emergency cash injections, though? Market forces?

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 15:19 03 Apr 2020
by MickyD
Frank_Butcher wrote: Fear not. It's in good hands.

And the Titanic was unsinkable ;)

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 16:39 03 Apr 2020
by Ade the green
What will come first, the chicken or the egg?

Depending on what we call the end of the crisis, I’d imagine the first concrete signs will be McDonalds re-opening. It might seem blasé but the likes of fast food and in some respect comfort food will be what many will be yearning for.

I think more people will be use to a cashless society and might even go so far as a credit system rather than some people having more disposable income than others.

I think there will be a backlash against those that have by those that have not because the haves will not have shared the same level of isolation and being deprived. I wonder if things like influencers as a “job” will disappear for that very reason.

Holidays etc will likely be out of the reach of ordinary people again so the ‘Jetset’ moniker will once again be a real thing.

Even though I am a remainer I don’t think Brexit will be an issue going forward as one of the things shown up was that there was little help or encouraging behaviour between EU countries and this will be what sees an end to the EU project as it is now.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 18:21 03 Apr 2020
by Balham_Green
It may not be post virus but post lockdown there could be big boost for uk tourism.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 18:33 03 Apr 2020
by MickyD
Ade the green wrote: Even though I am a remainer I don’t think Brexit will be an issue going forward as one of the things shown up was that there was little help or encouraging behaviour between EU countries and this will be what sees an end to the EU project as it is now.

It's not so much that, though; it's the chaos and uncertainty that was already intrinsic to the Brexit process, and its sluggish implementation, that's now been magnified ten (or whatever)-fold by the situation we now find ourselves in.

I'm also a remainer but, notwithstanding D_P's earlier remarks, our final exit from the EU is now fundamentally a question of logistics - not if but when, and how. Those logistics have been completely screwed now, though, which inevitably means that the politics have been too.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 18:57 03 Apr 2020
by PL2 3DQ
Hopefully people will be kinder to each other.

Working from home will increase which will mean travel on roads, rail and the tube will decrease. It could be a small revolution on the way people travel.
Meetings will be conducted by video conference call instead of people travelling from all over the country to attend a meeting.
Will TV shows need guests coming into the studio when an interview can be done from home? It's happening now and will wake up TV companies to a different way.

The value of food should be cherished more.

Taxes will increase to help pay for the Government funding currently being dished out.

The main thing that should happen is the NHS being the number one priority for the whole country - better funding and better wages.

Plus no-one should ever shop at Sports Direct again.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 19:21 03 Apr 2020
by MickyD
Sports Direct :lol:

Otherwise: that's what I'd like to see myself but it's largely utopian, I fear. As soon as it's possible, I think that everybody will want to see close interactions on TV, and in person, once again. In fact I'm sure there'll be a massive over-raction/pendulum swing to begin with - there always is.

What I fervently hope for, though, will be the change in attituide towards the NHS - plus the BBC, and "experts" in general. Turns out they're not so useless after all, eh, Mr Gove!

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 19:53 03 Apr 2020
by Guiri Green
We'll get an idea of what sort of people will make up up part of Society this Weekend. Hopefully, we'll see a new Socially responsible Population prepared to do as Instructed and Stay Home after putting the National Interest before their own despite a predicted spell of good weather at the end of a long Week of doing nothing. I've no doubt there will be those that ignore the call to behave, sadly reflecting the Times we live in.

I'd like to think that Post Virus, we'll be living in a more environmentally aware Society after seeing how quickly the Planet appreciated the lack of us poisoning it to the levels we're used to. The continued remote working and less travel being seen through new eyes.

I don't think much will change Politically, once this is all officially behind us. We'll just drop back to our petty warring factions. Those fanfaring the 'Socialist approach' to this problem will be complaining of the raised Taxes those lucky enough to resume employment will be charged to pay for it.

I'd not be surprised to see a refinanced revalued better paid NHS with perhaps a new direct contribution from all of us. It's more than proving it's worth and value to the Country, it should no longer be taken for granted.

Hopefully, Celebrity and it's worth will remain where it is now ie totally pointless and being famous for amongst other things, running around semi naked on some Island most of us can't afford to visit, is seen as the shallow, superficial nonsense it actually is.

I've actually stopped caring about Football, maybe I'm not alone and the Game has reconsidered what it's actually worth and reconnects with the Fan rather than their Credit Card. (Although I doubt it will).

Most importantly I'd like to think the Value of Family and Friendship has increased beyond a 'Like' button or Hashtag. The day with relatives of more importance than the 'where'.

Re: What sort of society will we be post virus?

Posted: 20:16 03 Apr 2020
by MickyD
But Will we all be Using more or less Random Capitalisations during long Posts? :thumbup:

Seriously, though, I genuinely don't understand this sentence: "Those fanfaring the 'Socialist approach' to this problem will be complaining of the raised Taxes those lucky enough to resume employment will be charged to pay for it."

I personally used the word "socialist" (carefully in inverted commas, even so) in this thread because that's pretty much what the term means, isn't it - spreading largesse?

Speaking for myself at least, I won't be complaining in the slightest if the implementation of higher-tax "socialist" policies is what saves the world. The continued implementation of what still pass for capitalist policies will surely destroy it - unless you genuinely believe in the survival of the so-called fittest (the obnoxious 1%), who will then go on to repopulate the world in their own likeness, god help us all.