[Biggs]

I think 'tucked away' is ideal tbh! A place you pass through, albeit 'accidentally', a quiet space for pause and reflection?

Totally agree with that. And also it's fitting that it's a relatively rare city centre pre-war space, for a pre-war footballer who could well have passed through it himself.

Yep agreed, very subtle and understated.

I'm hearing that there still might be attempts to stop this happening and the herald comments section is literally awash with people up in arms about it.

I'm all for compromise so if you really believe your history is being airbrushed by changing this street name I think I have the perfect solution:

Call the square Jack Leslie Square, but have an information plaque saying something like:

'This square was named after John Hawkins for a period of approximately 30 years up to 2020. John Hawkins was a navigator and a slave trader. His trade in humans led to the deaths of many thousands of people'

Perfect, you get your history that you're so keen on everyone knowing and Plymouth gets a place named after someone with a positive story but one that teaches us that prejudice wasn't just a concept that existed in Hawkins day.
So come on, lets not airbrush history at all, lets tell it like it really was history buffs

Heard about this on the news this morning. Well done all those involved.
I'm.not big into the black lives matter as every life matters in my eyes but well done for getting this through

As Jack was turned around by the England FA for being black and couldn't play for England does that mean we now get rid of everything England Internationa football now

Just asking

What was wrong with Palace Square?

[Mark Pedlar]

What was wrong with Palace Square?

There's no palace there....

Oh wait

I'm hearing that there still might be attempts to stop this happening and the herald comments section is literally awash with people up in arms about it.

I'm all for compromise so if you really believe your history is being airbrushed by changing this street name I think I have the perfect solution:

Call the square Jack Leslie Square, but have an information plaque saying something like:

'This square was named after John Hawkins for a period of approximately 30 years up to 2020. John Hawkins was a navigator and a slave trader. His trade in humans led to the deaths of many thousands of people'

Perfect, you get your history that you're so keen on everyone knowing and Plymouth gets a place named after someone with a positive story but one that teaches us that prejudice wasn't just a concept that existed in Hawkins day.
So come on, lets not airbrush history at all, lets tell it like it really was history buffs

You could also describe how common place the slave trade was in the 1500s, how there were markets in Timbuktu, slaves owned brought and sold by other black Africans. The traders bought and sold the goods that were for sale and legal at the time.

Also on your information board you could have a bit about the Spanish Armada and some of the other things Hawkins did.

I'm hearing that there still might be attempts to stop this happening and the herald comments section is literally awash with people up in arms about it.

I'm all for compromise so if you really believe your history is being airbrushed by changing this street name I think I have the perfect solution:

Call the square Jack Leslie Square, but have an information plaque saying something like:

'This square was named after John Hawkins for a period of approximately 30 years up to 2020. John Hawkins was a navigator and a slave trader. His trade in humans led to the deaths of many thousands of people'

Perfect, you get your history that you're so keen on everyone knowing and Plymouth gets a place named after someone with a positive story but one that teaches us that prejudice wasn't just a concept that existed in Hawkins day.
So come on, lets not airbrush history at all, lets tell it like it really was history buffs

You could also describe how common place the slave trade was in the 1500s, how there were markets in Timbuktu, slaves owned brought and sold by other black Africans. The traders bought and sold the goods that were for sale and legal at the time.

Also on your information board you could have a bit about the Spanish Armada and some of the other things Hawkins did.

You seem to be saying that since it was commonplace and 'legal at the time' therefore it was ok?!!
You do realise that even then there were campaigns against slavery so its not like they were people who didn't know the difference between right and wrong.
Also, like other people are attempting to say, you seem to be suggesting his good deeds as some sort of mitigation.
Jimmy Saville did a lot of charity work, but I don't think you'd want to live on Jimmy Saville Street would you?

What campaigns were there against slavery in the 1500s?

There wasn't even a parliament. There wasn't democracy. If you fell foul of Queen Elizabeth's expectations of your duties she chopped your head off.

I don't think there were rallies outside Downing Street and throwing missiles at police, because neither had been invented. You couldn't write to your MP because they hadn't been invented. You couldn't write a letter to the newspapers because the printing presses hadn't been invented.

So I am quite dubious as to how widespread this campaign against slavery was.

Fast forward 200-250 years to the 1800s and I think your point would be more relevant.

What was wrong with Palace Square?

Plymouth already has one of those

What was wrong with Palace Square?

Plymouth already has one of those

Doesn't a square normally have four points??

Talk about airbrushing history!
Surprised you don't think his role in saving us from the very real threat of the Armada worth a mention. The Spaniards weren't coming to spend a few hours on the beach, & the people of Britain should be rightly proud of Drake, Hawkins & our sailors for fighting them off.
The people of Mounts Bay, St Keverne, Looe, Torbay, etc would have prayed for someone like that when the North African Barbary Pirates were carting off whole seaside towns into slavery. The people of Cornwall appealed to London to help them from being enslaved - maybe that is the campaign you're thinking of. Shoreline settlements were abandoned in fear of the Barbary Pirate raids across Europe.
You could Google Slavery in Africa to see how incredibly long it has been present there. Or Abolition of Slavery map by country is staggering, particularly with the number of 1900s dates & where they are. You will need to be open to the slavery story being a whole lot more complex & long-standing than us & America, though...

Look. If there's a square or a street in Plymouth, named after a Barbary Pirate, then start a campaign to have it changed.
Seems to be another very flimsy justification for keeping the name of Hawkins up as if he's worth celebrating