by proper Plymothian Chris Dawson

At the end of the day SFD was a Tavi lad and Chris is a Plymstock Bey.

No doubt this subject will bring out a RANGE of opinions

[Biggs]

I think in this case it's more cut and dry towards keeping it. He wasn't predominantly known for being a slave trader, he was predominantly known for bowls, beating the Spanish Armada and circumventing the globe. Aware he's regarded rather less favourably in the Hispanic world, but I think even globally a very big videogame series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncharted has overtaken that.

You'd have to rip apart much of the story of Plymouth if you took that statue down, and obviously rename Drake Circus and Drake's Island too.

Step too far IMO.

[GreenThing]

I think in this case it's more cut and dry towards keeping it. He wasn't predominantly known for being a slave trader, he was predominantly known for bowls, beating the Spanish Armada and circumventing the globe. Aware he's regarded rather less favourably in the Hispanic world, but I think even globally a very big videogame series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncharted has overtaken that.

You'd have to rip apart much of the story of Plymouth if you took that statue down, and obviously rename Drake Circus and Drake's Island too.

Step too far IMO.

Agree. We can still celebrate the achievements of people who also did other things which are viewed as unsavoury in this day and age. Remember that the slave trade was legal at the time. It would be a different case if the statue was celebrating his role in the slave trade.

I am against the pulling down of statues but I am completely for education. Do not pull the statues down but put the real history on a board/plaque beside them. Tell people about what they did and get people to learn from it. Removing the history removes the chance to learn about the past.

Think the updated plaque is the right move. We should try to educate as many people as possible about the good and bad stuff that us the British have done through the years.

Think the updated plaque is the right move. We should try to educate as many people as possible about the good and bad stuff that us the British have done through the years.

Agreed. I find the Drake statue pretty distasteful but if there is context being provided then it's a lot more palatable. That's just my view as a white, relatively middle class person who doesn't live in Plymouth any more - I would expect minority groups to be consulted on the matter.

The Coulston statue had no such context, and petitions to provide it were rejected. Hence, glub glub.


So much of the problem here is education - not just a lack of it, but the lack of context in that which is provided. Churchill is a perfect example of this - the man did some utterly reprehensible things and held views that were repugnant in his own time, let alone to a modern standard. Having a problem with there being a statue of him in Parliament Square is therefore understandable from that perspective. Yet schooling portrays him as purely the stoic hero who refused to give in to Hitler - which is also true - meaning, a statue is completely warranted! Context is everything and needs to be considered, especially in matters so heavy.

Everyone I speak to regarding Drake in the last couple of days, says 'I didn't know he was a Slave Trader.

Why is it that this has come to the fore? I mean I know it's come about after the Coulston statue was taken down, but why didn't (I would suggest) most Janners know this?

Education, pure and simple.


In school I was taught Drake was a hero who fought off the Spanish. (Not even that it was the bleddy weather that won the fight in reality).


It was only later I learnt that the Spanish still think of him as a pirate. It was later again I learnt he was a slaver. Both these things I learnt via my own recreational study.


We teach a myopic view of history to people and then are surprised when they can't accept context to truths they've lived with all their lives.

I am against the pulling down of statues but I am completely for education. Do not pull the statues down but put the real history on a board/plaque beside them. Tell people about what they did and get people to learn from it. Removing the history removes the chance to learn about the past.

So there should be a statue of Hitler then.? Pol Pot perhaps. Stalin as well. Gaddafi? Saddam Hussein?

I cannot see what harm the statue is doing.It has been there for many years without comment but suddenly there is a completely OTT reaction. There is no place for racism today but you cannot rewrite history.

I cannot see what harm the statue is doing.It has been there for many years without comment but suddenly there is a completely OTT reaction. There is no place for racism today but you cannot rewrite history.

Who's asking for history to be rewritten, here or elsewhere? Tearing down a statue doesn't change history, it created it if anything.

I am against the pulling down of statues but I am completely for education. Do not pull the statues down but put the real history on a board/plaque beside them. Tell people about what they did and get people to learn from it. Removing the history removes the chance to learn about the past.

So there should be a statue of Hitler then.? Pol Pot perhaps. Stalin as well. Gaddafi? Saddam Hussein?

Has anyone suggested putting up 'new' statues?? If so, I must have missed that bit.

This is getting beyond a joke now. Should we put Richard III back under a car park in Leicester because we are told he wasn’t a very nice man? Do we have to rename one of London’s leading Hospitals because it was named after another very not nice man two or three hundred years ago? There is a real point at stake here and we’re in danger of focusing on issues which are a distraction from the main one. We will probably find out in the fullness of time that our modern day heroes are not perfect. I mean there are a lot of people who still regard Nelson Mandela as a terrorist. Who is going to decide who’s ok and who isn’t? It’s bleddy ridiculous!