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Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 07:45 19 Jun 2020
by Pogleswoody
Ave_IT wrote:
Daz wrote: So all of the stats are incorrect?

They made them up?

Think about it Daz. ...... Their shocking stats reveal.....wait for it......drum roll....

1)Black people are more likely to murder white people than white murder Blacks.
2)Black people are more likely to be murdered by other black people than by whites.
3)Only a fraction of one percent of blacks arrested are actually murdered.

Now if you really cannot conceive of any socio-economic reasons behind all that...if you really honestly think that somehow proves everything is hunky dory....then I suggest you find a dull 10 year old to help you out.

(I won't insult you by suggesting you buy the obvious message that despicable site is peddling with those grossly out-of -context stats i.e. that blacks are inherently far more dangerous and criminal than whites.)


"Only a fraction of one percent of blacks arrested are actually murdered."
Oh that's alright then, I didn't realise only a few were killed by police. Quite a relief to hear that, thanks!! ;)

As to 'being armed', what percentage of arrestees with their hands cuffed behind them and with a policeman kneeling on their neck, managed to pull out a hidden gun?? :think:

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 08:16 19 Jun 2020
by Daz
Ave_IT wrote:
Daz wrote: So all of the stats are incorrect?

They made them up?

Think about it Daz. ...... Their shocking stats reveal.....wait for it......drum roll....

1)Black people are more likely to murder white people than white murder Blacks.
2)Black people are more likely to be murdered by other black people than by whites.
3)Only a fraction of one percent of blacks arrested are actually murdered.

Now if you really cannot conceive of any socio-economic reasons behind all that...if you really honestly think that somehow proves everything is hunky dory....then I suggest you find a dull 10 year old to help you out.

(I won't insult you by suggesting you buy the obvious message that despicable site is peddling with those grossly out-of -context stats i.e. that blacks are inherently far more dangerous and criminal than whites.)


No one is saying everything is hunky dory. I’m sorry the link I provided was from a site that I don’t agree with every single thing on. It’s not really an argument though is it? I’m sure you don’t agree with everything the guardian publishes and posts.

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 08:23 19 Jun 2020
by Daz
Balham_Green wrote:
Daz wrote: I don’t need to research it BG. I can look at both sides left and right and call both out as I often do.

Unfortunately many people on both sides cant.

The cock of the week banner is a private joke between the mods as I voted not to ban you last time we had loads of complaints about you. You’re welcome btw. :thumbup:


'You dont need to do the research'!?! So where do you get your facts from? But thanks for 'looking at both sides' even if you have no evidence :facepalm: You cant back up your statement at all about white deaths by the Police as I knew. Just made it up.


I’m feeling more generous this morning BG so thought I’d help you out rather than have you claim I’m making things up. Here’s a link for you with ethnicity of people killed by the police over the last few years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 09:26 19 Jun 2020
by MickyD
Wow, I've just looked in again after a brief hiatus.

It's depressing to note how far to the right "mainstream" political views have shifted over the last few years, to the extent that a left-of-centre wuss like me can now be described by one of those awful, zero-thought clichés - radical left, in this case - without a hint of irony.

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 10:24 19 Jun 2020
by Frank_Butcher
MickyD wrote: Wow, I've just looked in again after a brief hiatus.

It's depressing to note how far to the right "mainstream" political views have shifted over the last few years, to the extent that a left-of-centre wuss like me can now be described by one of those awful, zero-thought clichés - radical left, in this case - without a hint of irony.


Well, Balham_Green labelled me 'far right' on several occasions - at least you've only had it said about you the one time. Though i suspect in his case it was just his usual boring baiting tactic.

But then again, maybe an indicator that the divisions in our society are becoming more extreme.

BTW - I do not see you as radical left.

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 10:56 19 Jun 2020
by Ave_IT
I suspect my sock draw is more radical than MickyD.... (no offence Micky but I do have some wacky socks)

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 11:02 19 Jun 2020
by MickyD
Aww, thanks, guys. You da best! :thumbs:

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 11:50 19 Jun 2020
by Ave_IT
Daz wrote: Here’s a link for you with ethnicity of people killed by the police over the last few years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Taking those figures at face value, in 2019 370 white people were shot dead by police out of a (Googled) population of 197 million; and 235 black people killed out of a population of 42 million …… by my sums that means just 57% more whites are shot dead compared to blacks even though there are 380% more whites ……maybe black lives don’t matter so much to police?

OK – if we want to be a bit more grown up about the stats……. black & other ethnic groups are much, much more likely to live in deprived areas. As is the case all over the world deprivation goes hand in hand with all sorts of social problems – drug use, gang culture, violence etc. The police aren’t responsible for that - their job is simply to deal with the consequences. So they will inevitably be far more engaged in those areas and will sometimes be facing life threatening situations (given the ludicrous gun culture people like Trump are happy to promote) so we shouldn’t be surprised if blacks are disproportionately killed by police.

But 380% more? If you think that black people are treated the same as white by the predominantly white police force then you are ludicrously naïve or just unwilling to see the blindingly obvious problem. But then again if the whole society is so heavily skewed against black and minorities, and racism widely tolerated (both the blatant and covert kind) then why should we expect the police to be any different? They aren’t alien beings – they come from that same society and are ‘agents of the state’.

That’s what the whole BLM movement is about. It’s not just a reaction to continued police abuse but a demand to change the prospects and opportunities offered to ethnic minorities both here and in the US. There have been countless promises made and well-meaning reports for decades and yet still the fundamental problems persist. If you are born black in the UK or the USA your prospects are substantially less than if you were white – for a start you’re much more likely to be born poorer but even allowing for that the evidence still shows for corresponding socio-economic groups your chances are worse….and even if you do climb the social ladder your black skin will still mean you’re much more likely to be stopped by police (“Is this YOUR car sir?”).

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 12:13 19 Jun 2020
by Daz
Ave_IT wrote:
Daz wrote: Here’s a link for you with ethnicity of people killed by the police over the last few years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Taking those figures at face value, in 2019 370 white people were shot dead by police out of a (Googled) population of 197 million; and 235 black people killed out of a population of 42 million …… by my sums that means just 57% more whites are shot dead compared to blacks even though there are 380% more whites ……maybe black lives don’t matter so much to police?

OK – if we want to be a bit more grown up about the stats……. black & other ethnic groups are much, much more likely to live in deprived areas. As is the case all over the world deprivation goes hand in hand with all sorts of social problems – drug use, gang culture, violence etc. The police aren’t responsible for that - their job is simply to deal with the consequences. So they will inevitably be far more engaged in those areas and will sometimes be facing life threatening situations (given the ludicrous gun culture people like Trump are happy to promote) so we shouldn’t be surprised if blacks are disproportionately killed by police.

But 380% more? If you think that black people are treated the same as white by the predominantly white police force then you are ludicrously naïve or just unwilling to see the blindingly obvious problem. But then again if the whole society is so heavily skewed against black and minorities, and racism widely tolerated (both the blatant and covert kind) then why should we expect the police to be any different? They aren’t alien beings – they come from that same society and are ‘agents of the state’.

That’s what the whole BLM movement is about. It’s not just a reaction to continued police abuse but a demand to change the prospects and opportunities offered to ethnic minorities both here and in the US. There have been countless promises made and well-meaning reports for decades and yet still the fundamental problems persist. If you are born black in the UK or the USA your prospects are substantially less than if you were white – for a start you’re much more likely to be born poorer but even allowing for that the evidence still shows for corresponding socio-economic groups your chances are worse….and even if you do climb the social ladder your black skin will still mean you’re much more likely to be stopped by police (“Is this YOUR car sir?”).


That's a fair post and i don't disagree with much of it at all. There are definitely lots of issues that need addressing. The link was provided to BG as he accused me of making things up. I'm fully aware that as a % that black people are more likely to be stopped, shot etc due to the reasons you outline above.

Silly of me to get in to a debate with BG.

Mickyd, i apologise for calling you radical left. Maybe we should all stop the grouping of people who we do not know in to categories based on how posts are perceived on here. I'm 100% sure that if all of the people who posted in this thread sat in a room we'd be able to discuss these things without pigeon holing and we'd probably agree on most things.

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 12:25 19 Jun 2020
by Ave_IT
Daz wrote: Mickyd, i apologise for calling you radical left. Maybe we should all stop the grouping of people who we do not know in to categories based on how posts are perceived on here. I'm 100% sure that if all of the people who posted in this thread sat in a room we'd be able to discuss these things without pigeon holing and we'd probably agree on most things.

:huddle:

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 13:19 19 Jun 2020
by MickyD
Apology accepted, Daz. Hugs and kisses all round! :happyclap:

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 14:30 19 Jun 2020
by Balham_Green
Daz wrote:
Ave_IT wrote:
Daz wrote: Here’s a link for you with ethnicity of people killed by the police over the last few years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Taking those figures at face value, in 2019 370 white people were shot dead by police out of a (Googled) population of 197 million; and 235 black people killed out of a population of 42 million …… by my sums that means just 57% more whites are shot dead compared to blacks even though there are 380% more whites ……maybe black lives don’t matter so much to police?

OK – if we want to be a bit more grown up about the stats……. black & other ethnic groups are much, much more likely to live in deprived areas. As is the case all over the world deprivation goes hand in hand with all sorts of social problems – drug use, gang culture, violence etc. The police aren’t responsible for that - their job is simply to deal with the consequences. So they will inevitably be far more engaged in those areas and will sometimes be facing life threatening situations (given the ludicrous gun culture people like Trump are happy to promote) so we shouldn’t be surprised if blacks are disproportionately killed by police.

But 380% more? If you think that black people are treated the same as white by the predominantly white police force then you are ludicrously naïve or just unwilling to see the blindingly obvious problem. But then again if the whole society is so heavily skewed against black and minorities, and racism widely tolerated (both the blatant and covert kind) then why should we expect the police to be any different? They aren’t alien beings – they come from that same society and are ‘agents of the state’.

That’s what the whole BLM movement is about. It’s not just a reaction to continued police abuse but a demand to change the prospects and opportunities offered to ethnic minorities both here and in the US. There have been countless promises made and well-meaning reports for decades and yet still the fundamental problems persist. If you are born black in the UK or the USA your prospects are substantially less than if you were white – for a start you’re much more likely to be born poorer but even allowing for that the evidence still shows for corresponding socio-economic groups your chances are worse….and even if you do climb the social ladder your black skin will still mean you’re much more likely to be stopped by police (“Is this YOUR car sir?”).


That's a fair post and i don't disagree with much of it at all. There are definitely lots of issues that need addressing. The link was provided to BG as he accused me of making things up. I'm fully aware that as a % that black people are more likely to be stopped, shot etc due to the reasons you outline above.

Silly of me to get in to a debate with BG.

Mickyd, i apologise for calling you radical left. Maybe we should all stop the grouping of people who we do not know in to categories based on how posts are perceived on here. I'm 100% sure that if all of the people who posted in this thread sat in a room we'd be able to discuss these things without pigeon holing and we'd probably agree on most things.


I dont agree :thumbup:

Re: Sir Francis Drake statue

Posted: 15:56 19 Jun 2020
by Ave_IT
Balham_Green wrote:
Daz wrote: ...... and we'd probably agree on most things.
I dont agree :thumbup:
:lol: