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Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 17:45 30 Jun 2020
by Greenrod
Ave_IT wrote:
Greenrod wrote: I hope this doesn't happen but when you have an idiot of a Cambridge professor (Priyamvada Gopal) stating publicly 'white lives don't matter' then who knows.

Context matters with any quote - especially a partial quote.What she actually said was "White lives don't matter. As White lives". She went on to expalin :
"Whiteness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the whiteness".

So you see how FULL quote and in the context of what she was talking about i.e. in response to the banner flown over the Burnley game that said "White lives matter"…… how it actually makes perfect sense.

OK – I accept that she has done it in a deliberately provocative way to make a point by twisting a well-known phrase. But that is just a rhetorical technique that has been used for centuries by philosophers, writers, academics, politicians, journalists & even stand-up comedians. The first part “white lives don’t matter” is calculated to shock & grab the attention of the audience…..…but then pause, before adding the punch-line “As white lives”. The listener then absorbs that all-important caveat as the point is developed further – basically saying the bleedin’ obvious i.e. that any life shouldn’t matter just because of the colour of the skin it happens to be wrapped in because - the life is important not the skin. But if you just said something as bland as that it would have zero impact -hence the word play.

Having said all that – my criticism would be that Twitter is definitely not the place to be doing those sort of things. She’s an idiot to not realise the furore that it would cause as the first four words are immediately seized and gleefully re-tweeted with faux outrage across social media and all the consequences that will have. It’s one thing to do it in a speech, a serious newspaper article or even on a TV political panel show like ‘Question Time’ (even that’s a bit dangerous) - but Twitter? WTF was she thinking? :facepalm:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ge-support



She is an idiot full stop, trouble is it seems it is not the done thing to call out BAME as racist against whites - this was an earlier tweet:

'I resist urges to kneecap white men every day'

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 19:14 30 Jun 2020
by Ponty
Disgraceful behaviour from a so called educated person.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 07:16 01 Jul 2020
by GreenThing
Ave_IT wrote: Context matters with any quote - especially a partial quote.What she actually said was "White lives don't matter. As White lives". She went on to expalin :
"Whiteness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the whiteness".

So you see how FULL quote and in the context of what she was talking about i.e. in response to the banner flown over the Burnley game that said "White lives matter"…… how it actually makes perfect sense.


What if a middle aged white heterosexual man said:

"Black lives don't matter. As Black lives". He then went on to expalin : "Blackness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the blackness".

Would that be ok? I very much doubt it.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 07:49 01 Jul 2020
by Whelan11
Ave_IT wrote:
Greenrod wrote: I hope this doesn't happen but when you have an idiot of a Cambridge professor (Priyamvada Gopal) stating publicly 'white lives don't matter' then who knows.

Context matters with any quote - especially a partial quote.What she actually said was "White lives don't matter. As White lives". She went on to expalin :
"Whiteness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the whiteness".

So you see how FULL quote and in the context of what she was talking about i.e. in response to the banner flown over the Burnley game that said "White lives matter"…… how it actually makes perfect sense.

OK – I accept that she has done it in a deliberately provocative way to make a point by twisting a well-known phrase. But that is just a rhetorical technique that has been used for centuries by philosophers, writers, academics, politicians, journalists & even stand-up comedians. The first part “white lives don’t matter” is calculated to shock & grab the attention of the audience…..…but then pause, before adding the punch-line “As white lives”. The listener then absorbs that all-important caveat as the point is developed further – basically saying the bleedin’ obvious i.e. that any life shouldn’t matter just because of the colour of the skin it happens to be wrapped in because - the life is important not the skin. But if you just said something as bland as that it would have zero impact -hence the word play.

Having said all that – my criticism would be that Twitter is definitely not the place to be doing those sort of things. She’s an idiot to not realise the furore that it would cause as the first four words are immediately seized and gleefully re-tweeted with faux outrage across social media and all the consequences that will have. It’s one thing to do it in a speech, a serious newspaper article or even on a TV political panel show like ‘Question Time’ (even that’s a bit dangerous) - but Twitter? WTF was she thinking? :facepalm:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ge-support


She also previously tweeted "abolish whiteness". I'm interested in hearing the context of that? Given it's all the tweet said. As another posted also stated, she's also tweeted about "resisting the urge to knee white men" or something similar. These are clearly racist comments. The fact that the University has not only defended her comments, but also given her a promotion, is dreadfully worrying. Would you want your kid being taught by her? I know I certainly wouldn't.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 08:11 01 Jul 2020
by Quinny
No, it isn't racist comment. She is referring to the supremacy of the "white man" over other ethnic groups. As I understand it, her position is that you can't elevate a black person to the level of a white person because the gap is too broad to span. You do what you can to improve the rights of black people, but you also take away the whiteness (or at least the white man's ego) and the notion of superiority it infers and then the black community et al having a chance of a level playing field in society.

That many white people feel threatened by her comment pretty much proves her argument.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 09:08 01 Jul 2020
by Whelan11
Quinny wrote: No, it isn't racist comment. She is referring to the supremacy of the "white man" over other ethnic groups. As I understand it, her position is that you can't elevate a black person to the level of a white person because the gap is too broad to span. You do what you can to improve the rights of black people, but you also take away the whiteness (or at least the white man's ego) and the notion of superiority it infers and then the black community et al having a chance of a level playing field in society.

That many white people feel threatened by her comment pretty much proves her argument.


And what about 'resisting the urge to knee white men every day'?

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 09:35 01 Jul 2020
by Quinny
That one specific Tweet has been removed from Twitter, and it was a reply to another Tweet which I cannot find reference to, so I cannot comment without reading it in its full context. But all I can find looking at the internet are several references to that specific tweet on "patriot" and - shall we say ... racist ... sites who have cherry-picked it.

Again, there seems to be a lot of focus on a lot of white people trying to undermine her arguments. But they're not racists, eh?

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 10:01 01 Jul 2020
by Whelan11
Quinny wrote: That one specific Tweet has been removed from Twitter, and it was a reply to another Tweet which I cannot find reference to, so I cannot comment without reading it in its full context. But all I can find looking at the internet are several references to that specific tweet on "patriot" and - shall we say ... racist ... sites who have cherry-picked it.

Again, there seems to be a lot of focus on a lot of white people trying to undermine her arguments. But they're not racists, eh?


If the shoe was on the other foot, and a white person made the three comments about black people, that have been 'cherry picked', they would be called a racist, absolutely no doubt about it.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 10:28 01 Jul 2020
by Quinny
Tell you what, Whelan11. You think her post was racist: why don't you do the legwork and find the tweet she was replying to so we can all determine whether it was or not in the context it was written? Because, so far, I've seen nothing to suggest any of her posts have been. How much research have you done into her posts, other than regurgitate what you've heard from other sources?

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 12:54 01 Jul 2020
by Ave_IT
Quinny wrote: Tell you what, Whelan11. You think her post was racist: why don't you do the legwork and find the tweet she was replying to so we can all determine whether it was or not in the context it was written? Because, so far, I've seen nothing to suggest any of her posts have been. How much research have you done into her posts, other than regurgitate what you've heard from other sources?

Quite - I tried to find a reliable source and couldn't. The fact that only pretty extremist web-sites seem to make any reference to it all (Katie Hopkins et al) - sites I wouldn't trust to tell me what day it is - certainly does raise considerable doubts. As her tweet about "White lives don't matter" demonstrates things can be totally different when you see the context (and in that case the full tweet). As for "if the shoe was on the other foot" - that's cobblers. Only a mug trusts anything they read on the internet without considering the veracity of the source.

IF she genuinely tweeted that in some bizarre fit of rage then yes, she is a disgrace and I'd be first to say so. But for a Cambridge university professor to come out with something like that without consequences - apart from being picked up by some nutter right-wing web sites I find hard to believe.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 13:55 01 Jul 2020
by Ave_IT
GreenThing wrote:
Ave_IT wrote: Context matters with any quote - especially a partial quote.What she actually said was "White lives don't matter. As White lives". She went on to expalin :
"Whiteness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the whiteness".

So you see how FULL quote and in the context of what she was talking about i.e. in response to the banner flown over the Burnley game that said "White lives matter"…… how it actually makes perfect sense.


What if a middle aged white heterosexual man said:

"Black lives don't matter. As Black lives". He then went on to expalin : "Blackness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the blackness".

Would that be ok? I very much doubt it.

That's a nonsense proposition though that doesn't make sense. Look - the entire context is that one section of society (white) is in a dominant position with respect to the other (black). It is an unequal relationship. The original quote is making the point 'whiteness' shouldn't matter even if the white life does. Trying to turn that on its head by saying 'blackness' shouldn't matter just doesn't work because you're referring to those already on the bottom of the relationship.

It would be like some eighteenth century anti-slave campaigner saying "justice for slaves - they are equal of whites" - then you saying "justice for slave owners - they are the equal of blacks". Superficially it's the same - but clearly it's a nonsense and not the same thing at all.

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 14:04 01 Jul 2020
by Whelan11
Quinny wrote: Tell you what, Whelan11. You think her post was racist: why don't you do the legwork and find the tweet she was replying to so we can all determine whether it was or not in the context it was written? Because, so far, I've seen nothing to suggest any of her posts have been. How much research have you done into her posts, other than regurgitate what you've heard from other sources?


Sadly her Twitter is now 'protected'. Probably trawling through her past and deleting anything inflammatory. As well as tweeting the comments I have already mentioned, she also liked a post which had the statement 'thank you for taking the fight to the #patriarchy and the whites. They are a disease which needs to be cleansed from the earth, starting with decolonising their books'. Her defence was she 'didn't read the tweet carefully'. Again, how would that excuse wash if it was racism going the other way?

She also tweeted 'there are three things true about right-wingers. 1. Deeply fragile. 2. Ineluctably racist. 3. Very poor reading comprehension.' (The last one is ironic given her excuse earlier was she 'didn't read properly')

Way to offend half the nation! Am I still 'cherry picking' now? How much evidence do I have to give
to show that she is a hateful person?

The whole context thing. So it's okay to make derogatory comments as long as it fits the context?

I got the evidence from right-wing sites, of course. The left aren't going to try and 'cherry pick' her tweets, because the left are on her side. Besides, they spend enough time 'cherry picking' right-wingers!

Re: BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Posted: 14:24 01 Jul 2020
by ninjamissile
This is worth a watch. No idea what we're supposed to think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOlhh098s1Q