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Swarms of them!

Posted: 16:23 01 Jul 2020
by MickyD
*Edited by Admin*

Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

Up to three million Hong Kong residents are to be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship, Boris Johnson has said.

About 350,000 UK passport holders, and 2.6 million others eligible, will be able to come to the UK for five years.

And after a further year, they will be able to apply for citizenship.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 18:50 01 Jul 2020
by Pogleswoody
Bit strange that Thatcher never just emptied The Falklands of all those who preferred a British identity and moved them over here, allowing the Argentinians to take and keep Las Malvinas in perpetuity.
Hong Kong is under attack, the Chinese are in breach of their legal agreements. The answer is to empty it out and let the attackers win?? :think:

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 10:42 02 Jul 2020
by mervyn
Pogleswoody wrote: Bit strange that Thatcher never just emptied The Falklands of all those who preferred a British identity and moved them over here, allowing the Argentinians to take and keep Las Malvinas in perpetuity.
Hong Kong is under attack, the Chinese are in breach of their legal agreements. The answer is to empty it out and let the attackers win?? :think:


I’m not a supporter of this government, but I have to admit this looks a smart move. London, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and New York are the four biggest financial centres. If this policy encourages an enlargement of London by moving Hong Kong businesses to London, this will have a great impact on our economy at a time when we really need it.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 11:19 02 Jul 2020
by Greenrod
It gets even better - we are sending out 3 million Corbynites in exchange :funny:

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 11:33 02 Jul 2020
by signalspast
mervyn wrote:
Pogleswoody wrote: Bit strange that Thatcher never just emptied The Falklands of all those who preferred a British identity and moved them over here, allowing the Argentinians to take and keep Las Malvinas in perpetuity.
Hong Kong is under attack, the Chinese are in breach of their legal agreements. The answer is to empty it out and let the attackers win?? :think:


I’m not a supporter of this government, but I have to admit this looks a smart move. London, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and New York are the four biggest financial centres. If this policy encourages an enlargement of London by moving Hong Kong businesses to London, this will have a great impact on our economy at a time when we really need it.


Frankfurt is not in the top ten let alone the top four. New York is top london second and japan third. London is in negotiations with New York and Japan over trading relationships. They are also in negotiations with switzerland. China has already agreed for london to be its outlet from Shanghai. There is very good reasons why these negotiations will come to fruition and Europe will be the little boy looking in. Just the trade of london and Zurich combined will be 100 times greater than Frankfurt and paris combined.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.valuew ... rld/%3famp

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 12:26 02 Jul 2020
by mervyn
signalspast wrote:
mervyn wrote:
Pogleswoody wrote: Bit strange that Thatcher never just emptied The Falklands of all those who preferred a British identity and moved them over here, allowing the Argentinians to take and keep Las Malvinas in perpetuity.
Hong Kong is under attack, the Chinese are in breach of their legal agreements. The answer is to empty it out and let the attackers win?? :think:


I’m not a supporter of this government, but I have to admit this looks a smart move. London, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and New York are the four biggest financial centres. If this policy encourages an enlargement of London by moving Hong Kong businesses to London, this will have a great impact on our economy at a time when we really need it.


Frankfurt is not in the top ten let alone the top four. New York is top london second and japan third. London is in negotiations with New York and Japan over trading relationships. They are also in negotiations with switzerland. China has already agreed for london to be its outlet from Shanghai. There is very good reasons why these negotiations will come to fruition and Europe will be the little boy looking in. Just the trade of london and Zurich combined will be 100 times greater than Frankfurt and paris combined.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.valuew ... rld/%3famp


Good facts. I stand corrected

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 18:47 02 Jul 2020
by CambsGreen1
This is true. However the EU economy is bigger than the US and banks and financial institutions are based in London because for one they have unfettered access to the European markets and 500 million customers. As the FT/Reuters reported in April the banks have advanced plans to relocate to Paris and Frankfurt starting in September if no deal looks inevitable on 31 December. Without the European financial passport, ie the ability to trade and sell products in the EU and EFTA then just like the car industry, it would make no sense to stay in the UK.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 20:33 02 Jul 2020
by signalspast
CambsGreen1 wrote: This is true. However the EU economy is bigger than the US and banks and financial institutions are based in London because for one they have unfettered access to the European markets and 500 million customers. As the FT/Reuters reported in April the banks have advanced plans to relocate to Paris and Frankfurt starting in September if no deal looks inevitable on 31 December. Without the European financial passport, ie the ability to trade and sell products in the EU and EFTA then just like the car industry, it would make no sense to stay in the UK.


Okay i will try and explain why and how the situation will be a reversal of what you think. the first thing is that whilst the EU trade at the present is greater than the USA come the 31st Jan these figures will go downwards balancing the two up however it wont be about USA wanting access to EU but EU wanting access to the rest of the world via London. For the last four years Europe has been trying to get London jobs over to Frankfurt and Paris they have succeeded with 7000 jobs going however over 1000 European companies have set up hubs in London to have access to London financial services.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... KKBN1ZJ00D

now 12 months ago the eu was having the same bullish attitude with Switzerland and the result of it very little despite exactly the same threats that they purport to the UK.

https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-econom ... witzerland

This report also mentions the affect that the USA would have. These talks are now happening and it does make sense for both countries.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/ ... ent-talks/

The link above is about the japan trade talks mentioning the financial services. the Nikkei index is the third largest and we could know if its happening as early as the end of this month. whilst i think its pushing it riding on the back of the previous EU agreement they might do it. it also mentions the trans pacific agreement which Japan and Australia have already backed us to be a member of. The USA pulled out of this under the present president but should Biden win he wants to rejoin and the UK still get trade agreement with USA via the back door.

https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/n ... -goes-live

a question Do you think the Chinese would have chosen London if they thought the EU was going to take over as the financial centres. No if they had any doubts about London still being the centre for financial services they would have waited and seen how the water flowed under the bridge. China in years to come will be the big noise and with them wanting shanghai as there main centre and not Hong Kong[*]. it is already the third largest but i am willing to bet in your pension pot less than 2 per cent will be Chinese companies but about 48 per cent USA i know mine is.

I have not mentioned any agreement with USA although i do think it will happen whoever is the president. however whilst you state that the american companies will want access to EU there are far greater reasons for the EU needing access to London on a global scale.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 21:05 02 Jul 2020
by CambsGreen1
Its not what I think, its what the CEOs of JP Morgan & Citibank told Reuters. The Chinese and US institutions will have no access to German Pension Funds or 500 million of the wealthiest people in the world if there's no deal and therefore no financial passport to Europe. Its hard economics, the Chinese are currently in London as it is the centre of European finance, and because it gives them access to Europe and the world , cut out the biggest single market on the planet they'll be off, they still probably think we're not insane enough to commit economic suicide and they maybe right. As the European CEO of Nissan said a couple of weeks ago, their business is unsustainable if there's no deal, as is all UK car manufacturing , and with half the UK cars currently sold to Europe, thats a million lost jobs. As I say its not my opinion, its what the banks and car makers are saying.
PS I work for one of those institutions and one of the City journalists raised the issue at a recent briefing, the Minister assured us they were going to get a deal!

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 22:06 02 Jul 2020
by signalspast
Okay the first thing is indo think we will leave with no deal. Not of intent on either side but agreement has got to be by all 27 nations on there side. I consider Spain will throw the Gibralter bomb in which the uk government cannot give into because it wont only involve spain but will open a can of worms over the falklands.
Nissan well I linked the Japan times which shows the concerns of the japanese car market. The government are aware of it and it's one of the reasons an agreement will come about. There will be changes with more parts being made in uk instead of coming from the eu. Whilst Nissan say one thing they are building a new battery plant for electric cars beside the current sunderland plant.
I dont work in the industry but listen to my financial advisor and somebody I know who works for BOE in Zurich. He says things totally over my head with figures but as I said agreements switzerland USA Japan Pacific asia agreement and China will leave the EU needing London
Now as many predictions that there are saying that london will suffer there are as many that say it's the eu that will suffer. People like the ex head (name escapes me) head of the IMF before Lagarde that says london and uk will thrive. Depends what side of the fence you sit and what you wish to believe but whichever side it's just opinions.

Oh they will still have access as europe cannot stop financial trade under gats it just wont be unfettered and wont be as quick. Also that's why 1000 financial institutions from europe have already set up in london to ensure eu institutions have access to the rest of the world.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 22:42 02 Jul 2020
by CambsGreen1
signalspast wrote: Okay the first thing is indo think we will leave with no deal. Not of intent on either side but agreement has got to be by all 27 nations on there side. I consider Spain will throw the Gibralter bomb in which the uk government cannot give into because it wont only involve spain but will open a can of worms over the falklands.
Nissan well I linked the Japan times which shows the concerns of the japanese car market. The government are aware of it and it's one of the reasons an agreement will come about. There will be changes with more parts being made in uk instead of coming from the eu. Whilst Nissan say one thing they are building a new battery plant for electric cars beside the current sunderland plant.
I dont work in the industry but listen to my financial advisor and somebody I know who works for BOE in Zurich. He says things totally over my head with figures but as I said agreements switzerland USA Japan Pacific asia agreement and China will leave the EU needing London
Now as many predictions that there are saying that london will suffer there are as many that say it's the eu that will suffer. People like the ex head (name escapes me) head of the IMF before Lagarde that says london and uk will thrive. Depends what side of the fence you sit and what you wish to believe but whichever side it's just opinions.

Oh they will still have access as europe cannot stop financial trade under gats it just wont be unfettered and wont be as quick. Also that's why 1000 financial institutions from europe have already set up in london to ensure eu institutions have access to the rest of the world.


Its not opinions its what the banks and car manufacturers have said, we still don't think there will be no deal, its just too insane.

Nissan have launched their electric car production in Sunderland, its their best and most efficient plant in Europe, but as they say the business is unsustainable here if no deal, not just because of disruption of just in time with Customs checks, and 10% tariffs, (not only on the finished product but every time parts cross the channel), but crucially because of quotas which could freeze them out of the European market entirely. That's over half the sales gone overnight.

European institutions don't have to be in London to trade with the rest of the world , they choose to because London is the hub of European finance and they can access the world from here. However to trade within the single market you must have the financial passport which is only available to EU/EFTA members. So the Chinese and American banks would have to transfer from London to a European City and set up an entity there in order to access EU markets. People talk about fish and other nonsense but Mr Barnier has repeatedly warned that without an agreement covering a level playing field on goods and services the UK and London based international institutions will lose access to EU markets. Its our choice.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 05:27 03 Jul 2020
by signalspast
CambsGreen1 wrote:
signalspast wrote: Okay the first thing is indo think we will leave with no deal. Not of intent on either side but agreement has got to be by all 27 nations on there side. I consider Spain will throw the Gibralter bomb in which the uk government cannot give into because it wont only involve spain but will open a can of worms over the falklands.
Nissan well I linked the Japan times which shows the concerns of the japanese car market. The government are aware of it and it's one of the reasons an agreement will come about. There will be changes with more parts being made in uk instead of coming from the eu. Whilst Nissan say one thing they are building a new battery plant for electric cars beside the current sunderland plant.
I dont work in the industry but listen to my financial advisor and somebody I know who works for BOE in Zurich. He says things totally over my head with figures but as I said agreements switzerland USA Japan Pacific asia agreement and China will leave the EU needing London
Now as many predictions that there are saying that london will suffer there are as many that say it's the eu that will suffer. People like the ex head (name escapes me) head of the IMF before Lagarde that says london and uk will thrive. Depends what side of the fence you sit and what you wish to believe but whichever side it's just opinions.

Oh they will still have access as europe cannot stop financial trade under gats it just wont be unfettered and wont be as quick. Also that's why 1000 financial institutions from europe have already set up in london to ensure eu institutions have access to the rest of the world.


Its not opinions its what the banks and car manufacturers have said, we still don't think there will be no deal, its just too insane.

Nissan have launched their electric car production in Sunderland, its their best and most efficient plant in Europe, but as they say the business is unsustainable here if no deal, not just because of disruption of just in time with Customs checks, and 10% tariffs, (not only on the finished product but every time parts cross the channel), but crucially because of quotas which could freeze them out of the European market entirely. That's over half the sales gone overnight.

European institutions don't have to be in London to trade with the rest of the world , they choose to because London is the hub of European finance and they can access the world from here. However to trade within the single market you must have the financial passport which is only available to EU/EFTA members. So the Chinese and American banks would have to transfer from London to a European City and set up an entity there in order to access EU markets. People talk about fish and other nonsense but Mr Barnier has repeatedly warned that without an agreement covering a level playing field on goods and services the UK and London based international institutions will lose access to EU markets. Its our choice.


The first thing is you dont need the financial passport to trade with europe. It just makes it easier like switzerland and many other countries you can trade under GATS regs which is like the WTO of the financial services. As I said read the link from money week it doesnt appear to take any side but points out that 12 months ago europe were making the same noises to switzerland about European passport etc. The reality is it's made little difference to the trade between them.
You quoted what people are saying until it happens it is just a projection by them so its opinion. As I said Europe for four years have been trying to lure the trade away with little success and the fact that over 1000 european institutions are creating hubs in london tends to say they are making arrangements to overcome any problems of brexit. The hubs are not opinions its fact it's happening.
Nissan the first thing it will be up to us if we impose tariffs on parts coming across from europe so there is no definitive on it. I linked the japan times which shows both governments are aware of the automobile industry and the importance to japan.
The chinese well there link to london was opened in 2019 just at the height of brexit dogma. Do you think they would have set up in london if they had any doubts about london remaining the major centre whatever the consequences of brexit. They wouldnt of if they had any doubts they would have waited to see which way the tide went and then set up whichever country was best for them.
Now for Mr Barnier and what he says think on it he is negotiating on behalf of the EU and is bigging up his side to try and get the best deal for them. Do you really think the 90 billion difference where we buy more and trade more from them than they do us is going to stop. No it's not the trade will go on but with tariffs.
Finally I have said we will leave on no deal since the referendum see no reason for a change of heart. I have stated the Gibralter bomb but nearly every country has there own agenda and I am sure there are many that I haven't thought of. For instance Belgium it's not only the country that needs to agree but every region within that country.

Re: Swarms of them!

Posted: 07:57 03 Jul 2020
by CambsGreen1
signalspast wrote:
CambsGreen1 wrote:
signalspast wrote: Okay the first thing is indo think we will leave with no deal. Not of intent on either side but agreement has got to be by all 27 nations on there side. I consider Spain will throw the Gibralter bomb in which the uk government cannot give into because it wont only involve spain but will open a can of worms over the falklands.
Nissan well I linked the Japan times which shows the concerns of the japanese car market. The government are aware of it and it's one of the reasons an agreement will come about. There will be changes with more parts being made in uk instead of coming from the eu. Whilst Nissan say one thing they are building a new battery plant for electric cars beside the current sunderland plant.
I dont work in the industry but listen to my financial advisor and somebody I know who works for BOE in Zurich. He says things totally over my head with figures but as I said agreements switzerland USA Japan Pacific asia agreement and China will leave the EU needing London
Now as many predictions that there are saying that london will suffer there are as many that say it's the eu that will suffer. People like the ex head (name escapes me) head of the IMF before Lagarde that says london and uk will thrive. Depends what side of the fence you sit and what you wish to believe but whichever side it's just opinions.

Oh they will still have access as europe cannot stop financial trade under gats it just wont be unfettered and wont be as quick. Also that's why 1000 financial institutions from europe have already set up in london to ensure eu institutions have access to the rest of the world.


Its not opinions its what the banks and car manufacturers have said, we still don't think there will be no deal, its just too insane.

Nissan have launched their electric car production in Sunderland, its their best and most efficient plant in Europe, but as they say the business is unsustainable here if no deal, not just because of disruption of just in time with Customs checks, and 10% tariffs, (not only on the finished product but every time parts cross the channel), but crucially because of quotas which could freeze them out of the European market entirely. That's over half the sales gone overnight.

European institutions don't have to be in London to trade with the rest of the world , they choose to because London is the hub of European finance and they can access the world from here. However to trade within the single market you must have the financial passport which is only available to EU/EFTA members. So the Chinese and American banks would have to transfer from London to a European City and set up an entity there in order to access EU markets. People talk about fish and other nonsense but Mr Barnier has repeatedly warned that without an agreement covering a level playing field on goods and services the UK and London based international institutions will lose access to EU markets. Its our choice.


The first thing is you dont need the financial passport to trade with europe. It just makes it easier like switzerland and many other countries you can trade under GATS regs which is like the WTO of the financial services. As I said read the link from money week it doesnt appear to take any side but points out that 12 months ago europe were making the same noises to switzerland about European passport etc. The reality is it's made little difference to the trade between them.
You quoted what people are saying until it happens it is just a projection by them so its opinion. As I said Europe for four years have been trying to lure the trade away with little success and the fact that over 1000 european institutions are creating hubs in london tends to say they are making arrangements to overcome any problems of brexit. The hubs are not opinions its fact it's happening.
Nissan the first thing it will be up to us if we impose tariffs on parts coming across from europe so there is no definitive on it. I linked the japan times which shows both governments are aware of the automobile industry and the importance to japan.
The chinese well there link to london was opened in 2019 just at the height of brexit dogma. Do you think they would have set up in london if they had any doubts about london remaining the major centre whatever the consequences of brexit. They wouldnt of if they had any doubts they would have waited to see which way the tide went and then set up whichever country was best for them.
Now for Mr Barnier and what he says think on it he is negotiating on behalf of the EU and is bigging up his side to try and get the best deal for them. Do you really think the 90 billion difference where we buy more and trade more from them than they do us is going to stop. No it's not the trade will go on but with tariffs.
Finally I have said we will leave on no deal since the referendum see no reason for a change of heart. I have stated the Gibralter bomb but nearly every country has there own agenda and I am sure there are many that I haven't thought of. For instance Belgium it's not only the country that needs to agree but every region within that country.


My friend your references are interesting but not relevant to the points I made. Not least because the UKs relationship as a major competitor on their doorstep shapes their unique approach to our future relationship.

Specifically, Switzerland has a very good relationship with the EU, are not a threat and have agreed the level playing field. We say we won't, and as a major competitor will be excluded from selling financial products within the single market without the financial passport.

Japan are holding out on a trade deal until they see our future relationship with Europe.

It is not a projection or opinion that the CEO of Nissan says their business is unsustainable if theres no deal. Its what they know. You seem confused about tariffs, its irrelevant if we impose them, they will , and more crucially as I said if there's bad blood in no deal they will freeze out all British made cars through quota limitations. Remember nothwithstanding the trade deficit we are a tiny part of the EUs overall trade, and by freezing out eg UK cars it opens up the internal market to their car makers eg BMW can sell more cars to replace the absence of UK imports.

As regards Mr Barnier, he hasn't moved one inch in 4 years on the substantive issues of level playing fields, food standards workers rights etc and they wont. Why? Well firstly they would be mad to give a major local competitor a competitive advantage, and more crucially if you allow a non member equivalent benefits without playing by the rules then what's the point of the EU? They will never compromise on the integrity of the single market.

I'm not interested in the politics of Brexit, its done, however we must safeguard our relationship with the the biggest free trading market in the world on our doorstep or we will be hit with a 2nd economic hit pretty much equal to the upcoming one from the corona virus crisis. 8% GDP according to Government figures, and I think that's an underestimate as it doesn't allow for the knock on effect of the decimation of the car industry, farmers the city etc. If That's what people voted for thats fine but its not what they were promised.