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Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 15:07 12 Sep 2020
by MickyD
oldage wrote:
MickyD wrote: All neatly and pithily summed up by Jonathan Freedland in oldages's favourite newspaper (The Guardian) today:

The party of unionism agreed to put a border down the Irish Sea. Regretting that now, the party of law and order breaks the law.


The only Guardian I read is the Cornish Guardian, wiseguy. How many times have the EU broke the law/failed to abide by it?

Maybe even the newspapers in Cornwall write broke when they mean broken - but OK, I'll bite. How many times have the EU broken/failed to abide by the law, to the great detriment of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the EU's general standing throughout the entire world?

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 15:35 12 Sep 2020
by oldage
I asked the question but forget it. Whether you like it or not thankfully Boris will pull us out of the EU who can kick and scream all they like but we WILL leave .

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 15:49 12 Sep 2020
by MickyD
oldage wrote: I asked the question but forget it. Whether you like it or not thankfully Boris will pull us out of the EU who can kick and scream all they like but we WILL leave .

Brexit and Brexiters in a nutshell. Be sure to stock up on bog roll well in advance of New Year's Day.

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 22:04 13 Sep 2020
by signalspast
The link shows exactly why he is doing it.

https://youtu.be/I0eqqxJE7aA

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 10:31 14 Sep 2020
by Ave_IT
signalspast wrote: The link shows exactly why he is doing it.

https://youtu.be/I0eqqxJE7aA

Is that the best excuse for breaking international law you can come up with? A clip of Barnier chatting from over a year ago and saying what exactly? That the EU would try and use one of the most obvious and stupid self-contradictions in the Brexit fantasy as leverage over the UK. Well blow me down – who’d have thought it? I do vaguely remember when this surfaced and causing the Daily Mail to froth at the mouth in indignation but the rest of the world completely ignoring it. Maybe nobody bothered showing Boris and that’s why he signed a treaty six months later that he now tells the world he’s going to break? Really?

I’ll give the only reason I can come up with and does have more than a shred of plausibility:-

Boris knew full well what he was doing when he agreed the WA with the EU. He was getting himself out of a short term fix by agreeing to what Theresa May had basically rejected about 18 months previously. But he could dress it up as an “excellent deal” that super-Boris had got in just a few weeks then go to the electorate claiming he could “Get Brexit done” with an “oven-ready” agreement. He lied. He knew full well it was just kicking the can down the road for nearly a year and then he’d try to play hard-ball. He’d threaten to break the agreement unless they give us what he tells them. He’d show them he doesn’t give a stuff about inconvenient things like the law or the truth - just like his mate Donald told him he should.

What about the Irish border or the GF agreement though? “Pah! Stuff of nonsense. We’ll sort something out. We’ve got clever people ain’t we? They’ll come up with some techy stuff ….. it’ll work out just fine, don’t you worry! Then we’ll just tell the world we’re here to do super-duper deals and you don’t need to bother too much about all those pesky details the bloody Europeans wet themselves over. All that ‘green’ nonsense, or food hygiene, or animal welfare, or health and safety crap, or workers rights blah-blah-blah…..…. Just watch. They’ll all come running to us…..and the EU, they’ll be a bit miffed for sure but they’ll get over it because they can’t manage without us. Isn’t that right Dom?”

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 11:19 14 Sep 2020
by oldage
Ave_IT wrote:
signalspast wrote: The link shows exactly why he is doing it.

https://youtu.be/I0eqqxJE7aA

Is that the best excuse for breaking international law you can come up with? A clip of Barnier chatting from over a year ago and saying what exactly? That the EU would try and use one of the most obvious and stupid self-contradictions in the Brexit fantasy as leverage over the UK. Well blow me down – who’d have thought it? I do vaguely remember when this surfaced and causing the Daily Mail to froth at the mouth in indignation but the rest of the world completely ignoring it. Maybe nobody bothered showing Boris and that’s why he signed a treaty six months later that he now tells the world he’s going to break? Really?

I’ll give the only reason I can come up with and does have more than a shred of plausibility:-

Boris knew full well what he was doing when he agreed the WA with the EU. He was getting himself out of a short term fix by agreeing to what Theresa May had basically rejected about 18 months previously. But he could dress it up as an “excellent deal” that super-Boris had got in just a few weeks then go to the electorate claiming he could “Get Brexit done” with an “oven-ready” agreement. He lied. He knew full well it was just kicking the can down the road for nearly a year and then he’d try to play hard-ball. He’d threaten to break the agreement unless they give us what he tells them. He’d show them he doesn’t give a stuff about inconvenient things like the law or the truth - just like his mate Donald told him he should.

What about the Irish border or the GF agreement though? “Pah! Stuff of nonsense. We’ll sort something out. We’ve got clever people ain’t we? They’ll come up with some techy stuff ….. it’ll work out just fine, don’t you worry! Then we’ll just tell the world we’re here to do super-duper deals and you don’t need to bother too much about all those pesky details the bloody Europeans wet themselves over. All that ‘green’ nonsense, or food hygiene, or animal welfare, or health and safety crap, or workers rights blah-blah-blah…..…. Just watch. They’ll all come running to us…..and the EU, they’ll be a bit miffed for sure but they’ll get over it because they can’t manage without us. Isn’t that right Dom?”

We are one of the few countries to adhere strictly to H & S rules,food hygiene regulations and animal welfare. Travel throughout the EU and you'd have a field day seeing the rules being flouted. You will just have to get used to the fact we are leaving ,whether you like it or not ,and nothing you are going to say is going to change it.

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 13:59 14 Sep 2020
by Mike E
You're quite right Oldage, I think everybody has come to terms now with the fact we are leaving. That arguement has been conceded, concluded, done and dusted.

What is imperative now is that a trusting trading relationship is established with our friends and previous european partners. If we want to be respected as an independent nation then we also have to show respect.

We're not setting off on the right road by flashing two fingers at a legal agreement we had a part in making only ten months ago.

Just like Trump, Johnson is a lazy politician, unlike Teresa May who was relentlessly back and forth to Brussels to try and make something work, he seems to have spent more time on honeymoon, holiday or (at no fault of his own) off sick, and gives the impression that he's not that bothered. Well he owes it to us the British people to be bothered, our lives and livelihoods depend on it.

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 18:27 14 Sep 2020
by ninjamissile

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 19:19 14 Sep 2020
by Ave_IT
ninjamissile wrote: Well worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOWNnBIWvg

No it's not. It really , really isn't. It's a link to some garbage pumped out by a site owned by Aaron Banks. Who's he? The bloke who gave UKIP millions, funded Leave.EU (from very dodgy sources.....but then his whole business empire is dodgy), threw a massive party to celebrate Trump's election, tweets offensive crap about Greta Thurnberg & the murder of Jo Cox, and set up 'Westmonster' to ape the American ultra right-wing Breitbart News. Like Trump, Farage and the other populist shysters of that ilk he's a nasty piece of work who wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the @rse.

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 04:41 15 Sep 2020
by ninjamissile
Ave_IT wrote:
ninjamissile wrote: Well worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOWNnBIWvg

No it's not. It really , really isn't. It's a link to some garbage pumped out by a site owned by Aaron Banks. Who's he? The bloke who gave UKIP millions, funded Leave.EU (from very dodgy sources.....but then his whole business empire is dodgy), threw a massive party to celebrate Trump's election, tweets offensive crap about Greta Thurnberg & the murder of Jo Cox, and set up 'Westmonster' to ape the American ultra right-wing Breitbart News. Like Trump, Farage and the other populist shysters of that ilk he's a nasty piece of work who wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the @rse.


:yawn: Entirely predictable.

Re: Help me please. What is the government’s WA position?

Posted: 07:59 15 Sep 2020
by signalspast
Ave_IT wrote:
signalspast wrote: The link shows exactly why he is doing it.

https://youtu.be/I0eqqxJE7aA

Is that the best excuse for breaking international law you can come up with? A clip of Barnier chatting from over a year ago and saying what exactly? That the EU would try and use one of the most obvious and stupid self-contradictions in the Brexit fantasy as leverage over the UK. Well blow me down – who’d have thought it? I do vaguely remember when this surfaced and causing the Daily Mail to froth at the mouth in indignation but the rest of the world completely ignoring it. Maybe nobody bothered showing Boris and that’s why he signed a treaty six months later that he now tells the world he’s going to break? Really?

I’ll give the only reason I can come up with and does have more than a shred of plausibility:-

Boris knew full well what he was doing when he agreed the WA with the EU. He was getting himself out of a short term fix by agreeing to what Theresa May had basically rejected about 18 months previously. But he could dress it up as an “excellent deal” that super-Boris had got in just a few weeks then go to the electorate claiming he could “Get Brexit done” with an “oven-ready” agreement. He lied. He knew full well it was just kicking the can down the road for nearly a year and then he’d try to play hard-ball. He’d threaten to break the agreement unless they give us what he tells them. He’d show them he doesn’t give a stuff about inconvenient things like the law or the truth - just like his mate Donald told him he should.

What about the Irish border or the GF agreement though? “Pah! Stuff of nonsense. We’ll sort something out. We’ve got clever people ain’t we? They’ll come up with some techy stuff ….. it’ll work out just fine, don’t you worry! Then we’ll just tell the world we’re here to do super-duper deals and you don’t need to bother too much about all those pesky details the bloody Europeans wet themselves over. All that ‘green’ nonsense, or food hygiene, or animal welfare, or health and safety crap, or workers rights blah-blah-blah…..…. Just watch. They’ll all come running to us…..and the EU, they’ll be a bit miffed for sure but they’ll get over it because they can’t manage without us. Isn’t that right Dom?”


My very first statement on the subject was I would wait till the second reading basically until i made.my mind up instead of being judge and jury before hearing the rationale etc behind it.
Now the video is not hearsay it shows Barnier planning to use Ireland as a tool in the negotiations. His words strategic and tactical which using ireland for future negotiations isolating ireland and not closing negotiations. Now I hadnt seen that video till the other night when it was forwarded to me on wattsapp however with Frost laying out the threats that the EU have made it becomes obvious the government has to act to protect the UK interests. These threats were confirmed on newsnight last night when the EU rep stated of course we will block stuff coming in if there is no deal.
Okay I watched the second reading last night on BBC Parliament and to be honest not much evidence came out and basically it was divided down leave and remain lines. There was various examples where the EU have broken international laws and depending on what side you took the enforcing or breaking of the good Friday agreement.
Good Friday agreement just my thoughts there are two sides to this agreement and the remain side twnd to take southern ireland and catholics side with them remaining in the eu however if the eu implemented things as they are threatening it would cause the Irish troubles to return. Remember history it wasn't the ira that started the troubles but the uvf with British troops being sent in to protect the catholics they still hold there orange order parades etc and if they feel threatened the troubles start again.
The second point that was made whilst the act brings in the tools to break the international law the actual act does not break the law. It just gives the government the tools to do it.
Its become obvious that the government had to do something to protect uk interests and the act is a safety net. If the objectors can tell me an alternative I will be pleased to hear it, but at the moment I consider the act is a necessity with an amendment. I dont like ministers making the decision to breach the international law and consider it should go back to parliament to take that decision. As oer the Bob Greene amemdment