I am staggered to learn via two radio programmes today that epidemiologists are predicting that as many as 20% of the population could refuse a Covid vaccination. This is apparently reflected in a blizzard of social media from flat earthers, some claiming that the vaccine is all part of a plot to improve big pharma profits, and even suggestions that Bill Gates philanthropy in funding third world vaccinations is just another way of making him richer!

As a life-long liberal I would always support the right to make your own decisions, but surely where a refusal to accept a vaccine imperils the rest of the population, then we need to react.

What do you think we should do?

Spoken like a true liberal!
Perhaps we should round them all up and send them to special education camps.
If you discount the nutters who always get reported, perhaps there are others who should have a free choice?
Personally, I will choose not to have it (I don't have the flu jab either).
I don't do social media in any form, so no influence there.
To be clear, I think the potential vaccine is great news and hope that anyone who wants it, gets access ASAP.

Do they do in the philippines for persistent breakers of lockdown. They have them sat in a mortuary for a night sat with a corpse that's passed away from the virus as company.

Spoken like a true liberal!
Perhaps we should round them all up and send them to special education camps.
If you discount the nutters who always get reported, perhaps there are others who should have a free choice?
Personally, I will choose not to have it (I don't have the flu jab either).
I don't do social media in any form, so no influence there.
To be clear, I think the potential vaccine is great news and hope that anyone who wants it, gets access ASAP.

So tell me KeithB, if you learned you had the virus, but were asymptomatic and a spreader, would you still refuse the vaccine?

People who refuse the vaccine, have got to think a lot ahead.

For a start, they may not be allowed in certain countries, without proof of having taken a vaccine.

Will they be allowed on planes ?, will they get travel insurance?, personal insurance, house insurance ?

What if they they are applying for a job, and they are asked if they have had a vaccine, because of the worry of their fellow workers.

What if they, have the virus, show no symptoms, but are a spreader.
Etc, etc.

Spoken like a true liberal!
Perhaps we should round them all up and send them to special education camps.
If you discount the nutters who always get reported, perhaps there are others who should have a free choice?
Personally, I will choose not to have it (I don't have the flu jab either).
I don't do social media in any form, so no influence there.
To be clear, I think the potential vaccine is great news and hope that anyone who wants it, gets access ASAP.

Am curious why you wouldn't have it if you think its great news?
IF there is a successful vaccine and IF there is 80% take up that will achieve herd immunity. The other 20% can take their chances with the virus!

As far as I understand it, those who refuse to take a vaccine do so because they don't want to chance their health because, oh I don't know, they think they'll grow a 6th toe (7th if you're Cornish, obv) or one of their bollocks will drop off or something. However, they want to cash in on the obvious benefits of everyone else taking the vaccine ... which is just agreeing to the concept of herd immunity.

That's fine: they are entitled to have that belief and they have a right to refuse the vaccine. But I think there should be consequences - I think that those who have a vaccine should be given a pass or something, and be allowed to go to bars, attend football games, etc without restrictions. Those who refuse the vaccine can't ... at least until Covid is down to a negligible level. Which, if it follows the same pattern as influenza will be "never" and so like flu, we'll need regular annual jabs as the virus mutates naturall,y.

I'm all for the vaccine and look forward to having it when it is available. I understand that flu mutates and we are unlikely to eliminate it, so have the flu vaccine every year and so far so good.

This herd immunity thing is a bit confusing, as if you strip it down, it is basically survival of the fittest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely if you make the choice to have the vaccine you should be ok, if you don't you take your chances (personal opinion, more fool you).

Now if the "Anti Vaccers" are proclaiming we "Pro Vaccers" shouldn't take it, then we have a problem, but if it's just a matter of choice, what's all the fuss, no one appears to be forcing anyone to have it.

Spoken like a true liberal!
Perhaps we should round them all up and send them to special education camps.
If you discount the nutters who always get reported, perhaps there are others who should have a free choice?
Personally, I will choose not to have it (I don't have the flu jab either).
I don't do social media in any form, so no influence there.
To be clear, I think the potential vaccine is great news and hope that anyone who wants it, gets access ASAP.

So tell me KeithB, if you learned you had the virus, but were asymptomatic and a spreader, would you still refuse the vaccine?

Fair question, assuming I had the symptoms, I would be tested and self isolate as required.
My understanding is the vaccine does not prevent you catching it, it helps your system to fight it , like the current flu jab.
Ironically, I fall into the at risk category, but am a fatalist and don't even take paracetamol etc.
I don't subscribe to any of the conspiracy theories around vaccines, just believe in personal choice.
I think the potential vaccine is great for those that choose to have it, as it will give them the reassurance they need to get back to some normality.

I'm all for the vaccine and look forward to having it when it is available. I understand that flu mutates and we are unlikely to eliminate it, so have the flu vaccine every year and so far so good.

This herd immunity thing is a bit confusing, as if you strip it down, it is basically survival of the fittest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely if you make the choice to have the vaccine you should be ok, if you don't you take your chances (personal opinion, more fool you).

Now if the "Anti Vaccers" are proclaiming we "Pro Vaccers" shouldn't take it, then we have a problem, but if it's just a matter of choice, what's all the fuss, no one appears to be forcing anyone to have it.

The problem isn't nanny state or big pharma it's the impact of someone who's tin hat means they choose not to vaccinate, gets infected and then passes the virus onto someone who is too vulnerable to have the vaccine (people with weakened immune systems etc), who cannot choose to have it.

What if the 2nd person dies purely as a result of the paranoid election of the 1st person?

These days its less about what is best for community, country etc and more about me me me.

About time people were held responsible for their decisions.

You elect not to have the vaccine if you pass on the virus and someone dies you're responsible.

Libertarianism really bothers me because it seems to want to have its cake and eat it. It all sounds fine and dandy in principle, but in practice it always seems to amount to: "I should be free to make my own choices - until something goes wrong, at which point I'll immediately run back to mummy and avail myself of all the safety nets of a modern, wealthy, sophisticated, civilised, mature democracy such as the health services/police/government/legal system/whatever - all those institutions that are trying to crush our innivijoool freedoms, maaaan! (Er, except when I need them.)"

Those off-the-grid, government-hating, camo-wearing, gun-toting, food-hoarding, bunker-dwelling survivalists in the US are almost all rightwing nutjobs, but I have a certain grudging respect for them because at least they're actually walking the walk.

Libertarianism really bothers me because it seems to want to have its cake and eat it. It all sounds fine and dandy in principle, but in practice it always seems to amount to: "I should be free to make my own choices - until something goes wrong, at which point I'll immediately run back to mummy and avail myself of all the safety nets of a modern, wealthy, sophisticated, civilised, mature democracy such as the health services/police/government/legal system/whatever - all those institutions that are trying to crush our innivijoool freedoms, maaaan! (Er, except when I need them.)"

Oh, you mean people from Totnes. Or, as I like to call them, middle-class hippies:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/11/totnes-covid-concerns-reflect-uk-wide-rise-in-conspiracy-theories

I think all who have the jab could be given a card, which needs to be shown for most services... no card, no service.
I also think all babies should have DNA taken, after a generation most serious crimes would be eradicated, or the perpetrators would be easily caught. Do the "not take away my personal liberties" people want a safer world ? Ask people whose relatives
have been murdered, raped etc what they think.
I agree with a previous contributor re Totnes.......why do the local TV channels always ask opinions on various local subjects from Totnes people, the least representative in the Westcountry ! Rant for today done !!