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Re: Next Labour Leader

Posted: 07:17 22 Apr 2020
by Pilgrim_Joe
MarkMatthews wrote:
Pilgrim_Joe wrote:
mervyn wrote:
MarkMatthews wrote:
Ave_IT wrote:
mervyn wrote: Great choice. We’ll soon have a real opposition. I know it’s a crisis, but important he doesn’t get too sucked in when supporting the government and becomes another Nick Clegg.

Agreed.

What a relief to have a bright, professional & capable Labour leader. Someone who can hold more than one thought in his head at a time and someone who doesn't see the whole world and everything in it through the prism of a 19th century ideological mantra he absorbed in his student days decades ago and has never grown out of.

Keir Starmer may not be the most charismatic person alive but you will never see him roasted alive by Andrew Neil because he doesn't have the most basic, fundamental facts at his finger tips to answer a blindingly obvious question about his flag-ship policy (I'm referring to Corbyn's tax plan in the election - although at least he had the guts to do the interview unlike cowardly Boris). It may have been more exciting to have had someone like Jess Philips (I'm a bit of a fan of hers) - but I do get it that after the shambolic Corbyn era a safe pair of hands is needed.

So yeah - I'm delighted the Labour party seems to have got over it's bout of self-indulgent nonsense and has a leader who is eminently more Prime Ministerial than the current buffoon in number 10.. So much so I'm seriously thinking of getting off my backside and joining.


Sir Phoney Blair, elected by a membership that thinks Swarfega is a Greek island. The architect of the election defeat.

RBL was an awful pick of Lansman and McDonnel, (a Campaign Group candidate who didn’t even back the Campaign Groups candidate for deputy!) who for a reason only they will know insisted on having a women candidate, overlooking the two best candidates in Ian Lavery and Jon Trickett. I don’t have a problem with a female leader but they have to be up to job, none of the most recent candidates from the SCG were, hopefully Rachel Hopkins will go for it next time after gaining parliamentary experience.

Starmer is unelectable and is bound to have skeletons in his closet from his days as DPP that the press will jump on. He has already purged the shadow cabinet of the left and promoted the hard right of the party. The left will rue the day they put Corbyn up as their candidate instead of convincing Dennis Skinner to run. He would have faced down the cowardly critics and made the party unashamedly pro Brexit, also a lot harder to paint him as anti British whilst the Union flag and red poppy adorn the outside of his office, IMHO he would have wiped the floor with May and won the 2017 election.


Who would you define as the hard right in his shadow cabinet?


Ian Lavery - the same person who recommended Rebecca Long-Bailey for the leadership? John Trickett who believes Jeremy Corbyn was undermined by the PLP?

In my opinion the only person who undermined Jeremy Corbyn was, well Jeremy Corbyn.

I don't follow any particular party, but JC was a truly appalling leader, only bettered by Jo Swinson.

Thankfully Jo Swinson realised her error and went immediately. Jeremy Corbyn should have done the same.

When you are regularly thrashed at PMQs by Boris it's time for a change. Is Kier Starmer the answer I don't know, but at least he gives the impression of competence. Something Jeremy never did.

Without Theresa May's disastrous inheritance tax proposal he would have been thrashed and never made this election.

Let's hope that after many years we will have a grown-up and effective opposition.

The country most definitely needs one


The same Jon Trickett and Ian Lavery who backed Brexit and urged against Starmer’s suicidal second referendum policy, warning we would lose all those Brexit voting “Red wall” seats. Of course they backed RBL when she became the only viable option of the left. I voted for her myself, doesn’t mean we did so enthusiastically (just as we didn’t Corbyn!)

I agree Corbyn did not only undermine himself but the party’s electability and the lefts control of the party, by promoting Sir Phoney Blair, the man who looks like he is playing PM in a Spice Girls video, as Shadow Brexit secretary instead of Kate Hoey or Ronnie Campbell.

The leaked reports show Jon Trickett’s suspicions didn’t go far enough. Not only were the PLP undermining the leadership, full time party staffers were.


A very convenient leaked report timed to airbrush Jeremy Corbyn's reputation as he steps down.

You're obviously a committed Labour voter so I can understand the dislike of Tony Blair after the Iraq war decision.

I'm a centrist, but do find the bile towards Tony Blair quite odd. He was a leader who appealed to the general public rather than just factions of the Labour party. He won things, he got things done and despite the Iraq war he still seems to be respected by the international community. Can you say the same about Jeremy Corbyn - who walks round with a scarf on with his name on it like some kindly uncle with his address in his pocket.

Labour members voted to elect Jeremy Corbyn initially and he rode the wave to 2nd place after Theresa May's disastrous manifesto gaffe. Was he ever going to be elected, really? I believe he has the lowest popularity figures of any leader in goodness knows how long - that's why people joined the Labour party in droves to STOP RLB being made leader and prevent a succession in the Corbyn approach.

Britain needs to have a credible opposition who will hold HMG to account, not some faction who can't even agree a decision among themselves.

The age of Corbyn and the left is over, time for Starmer to be given a chance.

The PLP and the bulk of the membership, based on the leadership election results could see what the rest of the country had already worked out long ago - the King is dead, long live the King

Re: Next Labour Leader

Posted: 09:42 22 Apr 2020
by MarkMatthews
Sir Kier is just Tony Blair without the charisma! It isn’t so much “bile” (Iraq to one side) The main criticism is the wasted landslides, something the Tories never do. In 1997 he appealed just because he wasn’t a Tory after years of sleaze and shed votes by the ton at every subsequent election. I find it hard to believe that by 1997; Prescott, Beckett or Bryan Gould wouldn’t have led the party to a landslide. Instead it was Blair and after 13 years of a Labour government,(a Labour government!) British Gas, British Telecom, the regional electricity and water boards, rail and the steel and coal industry, all still in private hands, not a single anti trade union law overturned, nor a single coal pit reopened. Instead just more privatisation at home and more devastation in the Middle East. I don’t even think Blair is a centrist, he’s on the right in my eyes. David Owen, Peter Shore, Bryan Gould and Dennis Healey are centrist not Blair and Mandelson.

I have seen no evidence people flocked to the party to elect Starmer. He appealed to many members who voted for Corbyn because they refuse to acknowledge the result of the 2016 referendum and can’t handle the truth of why Labour lost the last election, Sir Kier is a massive remainiac comfort blanket, stuck in 1997! The general public, 17 million of which in seats the party must win back won’t like his; condescending, smart Alec, London centric, remainiac nonsense.

Re: Next Labour Leader

Posted: 11:56 22 Apr 2020
by Pilgrim_Joe
MarkMatthews wrote: Sir Kier is just Tony Blair without the charisma! It isn’t so much “bile” (Iraq to one side) The main criticism is the wasted landslides, something the Tories never do. In 1997 he appealed just because he wasn’t a Tory after years of sleaze and shed votes by the ton at every subsequent election. I find it hard to believe that by 1997; Prescott, Beckett or Bryan Gould wouldn’t have led the party to a landslide. Instead it was Blair and after 13 years of a Labour government,(a Labour government!) British Gas, British Telecom, the regional electricity and water boards, rail and the steel and coal industry, all still in private hands, not a single anti trade union law overturned, nor a single coal pit reopened. Instead just more privatisation at home and more devastation in the Middle East. I don’t even think Blair is a centrist, he’s on the right in my eyes. David Owen, Peter Shore, Bryan Gould and Dennis Healey are centrist not Blair and Mandelson.

I have seen no evidence people flocked to the party to elect Starmer. He appealed to many members who voted for Corbyn because they refuse to acknowledge the result of the 2016 referendum and can’t handle the truth of why Labour lost the last election, Sir Kier is a massive remainiac comfort blanket, stuck in 1997! The general public, 17 million of which in seats the party must win back won’t like his; condescending, smart Alec, London centric, remainiac nonsense.



From Paul Waugh

Extraordinary figures among 'registered supporters' who signed up just to vote in the election.
Long-Bailey got just 650 votes (5%) to Starmer's 10,228 (78.6%) and Nandy's 2,128 (16.3%)

So despite the country rejecting Corbynism and nationalising everything for a second time Kier Starmer is doomed for having too many similarities to a proven winner?

Should the Labour party be something that the general public think are electable or should they descend further into a twice rejected mantra?

As an independent I'd prefer the opposition to be that rather than some university politics group.

The Tooting Popular Front of the 2020s :coat:

Re: Next Labour Leader

Posted: 12:35 22 Apr 2020
by Mike E
Totally agree Joe, in our current two party system we need a strong opposition that can appeal to a large part of the population, and can hold the incumbent government to account preventing it being able to totally dictate its agenda.

It is difficult to find the words as to describe how pathetic, wet and unappealing Corbyns leadership and opposition turned out to be.

Re: Next Labour Leader

Posted: 17:49 22 Apr 2020
by Pogleswoody
Mike E wrote: Totally agree Joe, in our current two party system we need a strong opposition that can appeal to a large part of the population, and can hold the incumbent government to account preventing it being able to totally dictate its agenda.

It is difficult to find the words as to describe how pathetic, wet and unappealing Corbyns leadership and opposition turned out to be.


I thought PMQs today was a huge improvement. None of this:
"I've had a letter from Audrey in Stockport and Audrey tells me that she can't get her bins emptied" BS!!

The other thing that annoyed me about Corbyn was his dealing with the press when leaving his house in the morning:
"Thank you for coming. Nice to see you thank you for coming" BS!!

Made him look so insular and petty, a leader who can't see off a hack on his doorstep?? Sheez!! :facepalm:

As with Blair: 'Things can only get better!!'.

Re: Next Labour Leader

Posted: 08:58 24 Apr 2020
by Frank_Butcher
Agree. He's very much the straight man but Starmer looks polished and his performance was superbly balanced in a time of crisis - blending support with holding Government to account. The next few years will be very different to the last methinks.