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Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 13:05 03 Dec 2019
by Ade the green
So, special investigator Horowitz’ report is looking like it will disclose that there was reason enough for the FBI to start looking at the Trump families ties to Russia and in particular that members of Trump’s family may have tried to use Russia in election interference in 2016. No surprise there.

Rep Mark Meadows (GoP) has cautioned about reading anything into supposed leaks of the report which is at this moment being scrutinised by Congressional sources. No surprise there.

Horowitz has been described as a fiercely independent investigator without bias (much like Bob Mueller). No surprise there.

William Barr is casting doubts on the report and has drawn his own conclusion that this report condemns the FBI as deep state and Comey, Strozk and Page as rogue elements within the intelligence family. No surprise there.

That Trump IS in fact as far from being exonerated by this and the Mueller report as he could possibly be. Wow! Really?

Will Trumps self preservation go as far as having one of his sons, his eldest son and heir take the fall for any misdeeds and misdemeanours? Stay tuned

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 13:43 03 Dec 2019
by Willis88
Ade the green wrote: So, special investigator Horowitz’ report is looking like it will disclose that there was reason enough for the FBI to start looking at the Trump families ties to Russia and in particular that members of Trump’s family may have tried to use Russia in election interference in 2016. No surprise there.

Rep Mark Meadows (GoP) has cautioned about reading anything into supposed leaks of the report which is at this moment being scrutinised by Congressional sources. No surprise there.

Horowitz has been described as a fiercely independent investigator without bias (much like Bob Mueller). No surprise there.

William Barr is casting doubts on the report and has drawn his own conclusion that this report condemns the FBI as deep state and Comey, Strozk and Page as rogue elements within the intelligence family. No surprise there.

That Trump IS in fact as far from being exonerated by this and the Mueller report as he could possibly be. Wow! Really?

Will Trumps self preservation go as far as having one of his sons, his eldest son and heir take the fall for any misdeeds and misdemeanours? Stay tuned


Just on the last line there - Could Trump get someone to take the fall on the premise he'll immediately pardon them? Effectively protecting himself from the blame and wrapping it all up nicely (from his PoV).

That would probably end up in him being impeached or losing the next election but avoids him, or anyone he "cares" about being locked up.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 14:28 03 Dec 2019
by Ade the green
Willis88 wrote:
Ade the green wrote: So, special investigator Horowitz’ report is looking like it will disclose that there was reason enough for the FBI to start looking at the Trump families ties to Russia and in particular that members of Trump’s family may have tried to use Russia in election interference in 2016. No surprise there.

Rep Mark Meadows (GoP) has cautioned about reading anything into supposed leaks of the report which is at this moment being scrutinised by Congressional sources. No surprise there.

Horowitz has been described as a fiercely independent investigator without bias (much like Bob Mueller). No surprise there.

William Barr is casting doubts on the report and has drawn his own conclusion that this report condemns the FBI as deep state and Comey, Strozk and Page as rogue elements within the intelligence family. No surprise there.

That Trump IS in fact as far from being exonerated by this and the Mueller report as he could possibly be. Wow! Really?

Will Trumps self preservation go as far as having one of his sons, his eldest son and heir take the fall for any misdeeds and misdemeanours? Stay tuned


Just on the last line there - Could Trump get someone to take the fall on the premise he'll immediately pardon them? Effectively protecting himself from the blame and wrapping it all up nicely (from his PoV).

That would probably end up in him being impeached or losing the next election but avoids him, or anyone he "cares" about being locked up.



I’m starting to wonder whether the Democrat’s reasoning forbthe impeachment process is to sow doubt amongst swing voters and discord amongst Republican voters. If it is, it’s not a tactic I’d approve of but does the ending justify the means? I can’t see Trump getting his second term anyway. If Hilary secured the popular vote I’d imagine any (caveat needed) Dem candidate that isn’t Clinton should get a landslide.

I personally would also like the Dems to ditch Biden. Regardless of whether or not he used VP status to advance his son’s career I’d like to think the leader of the free world should be free from this kind of distraction, innuendo and accusation.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 20:43 03 Dec 2019
by Ade the green
So, the congressional intelligence committee have got hold of Rudi’s phone records from the time of his Ukraine involvement and wow!

Amongst those on his call list we’re all the usual suspects and .......... Devin Nunes!!!!!

No wonder the GOP are determined to waylay and counter accuse. Now, it’s not out of the realms of possibility that the Democrats are as dishonest and as corrupt as the Repugnant party but my god, Trump has exposed the GOP as having their hands caught in the cookie jar and after all this comes out in proper form it will only be the racists and white supremists that will follow them without throwing up in their mouths.

What do you call an honest Republican politician? Don’t know, they’ve never been found.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 23:41 03 Dec 2019
by MickyD
More mind-blowing revelations that would in their own right have destroyed any other president cause barely a blip on the political radar today. That's how far Trump has dragged his entire country down, and the world with it, in just three short years. Every day, every week, every month, more evidence comes to light of the breathtaking scope and depth of the corruption he's indulged in himself, and encouraged in others, that is at once appalling and shocking but no longer even slightly surprising.

And to think that all these latest post-Mueller horrors initially came to light thanks to just one whistleblower and one phone call relating to one country. We can only imagine what the full story must be, within the US itself and all around the world. I suspect that we'll never get to hear of most of it, because that's just the way things work.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 14:42 07 Dec 2019
by Ade the green
Well, I think Impeachment will never go so far as to remove Trump but i’m now not convinced this is the favoured outcome of the Democrat party and I do think that Trump, his White House staff, congressmen like Matt Gaetz and Senators like Lyndsey Graham have actually all fallen into a massive trap.

Add to this Fox News pundits like Hannity and Carlson and the first person to serve real time for this whole shitbang Rudy Giuliani.

The Dems know now as they’ve always done that the Senate is as far as they can go but Nancy Pelosi has played a blinder in that the GOP will know that Trump will not win a second term. They (GOP) have to decide how and when they have to cut loose from a Midas president that has lost his Midas touch. Most independent’s will already have decided that he is toxic in his demeanour, his trade wars aren’t winnable and his foreign policy is non-existent and you can’t have an off the cuff relationship with China, NATO, the G7, Afghanistan etc etc. His North Korean exploits have ended exactly as he was told they would by people who knew Kim and the DPRK except that he has legitimised an otherwise despotic regime. His being ridiculed by NATO leaders and Boris’ refusal to be seen with him at a time when we should be pandering to any US President for trade deals is unknown territory for someone that thrives on confusing misspeak but also theatrics over substance.

Nancy has played the hand she was dealt and Schiff and now Nadler are willing and able to facilitate the end of a truly awful time for US politics.

The GOP must decide if they have any choice of winning with Trump or setting up a candidate to go at him in a repugnant primary. The timing couldn’t have been better.

Nancy I salute you.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 20:39 07 Dec 2019
by MickyD
Ade the green wrote: Well, I think Impeachment will never go so far as to remove Trump but i’m now not convinced this is the favoured outcome of the Democrat party and I do think that Trump, his White House staff, congressmen like Matt Gaetz and Senators like Lyndsey Graham have actually all fallen into a massive trap.

Add to this Fox News pundits like Hannity and Carlson and the first person to serve real time for this whole shitbang Rudy Giuliani.

The Dems know now as they’ve always done that the Senate is as far as they can go but Nancy Pelosi has played a blinder in that the GOP will know that Trump will not win a second term. They (GOP) have to decide how and when they have to cut loose from a Midas president that has lost his Midas touch. Most independent’s will already have decided that he is toxic in his demeanour, his trade wars aren’t winnable and his foreign policy is non-existent and you can’t have an off the cuff relationship with China, NATO, the G7, Afghanistan etc etc. His North Korean exploits have ended exactly as he was told they would by people who knew Kim and the DPRK except that he has legitimised an otherwise despotic regime. His being ridiculed by NATO leaders and Boris’ refusal to be seen with him at a time when we should be pandering to any US President for trade deals is unknown territory for someone that thrives on confusing misspeak but also theatrics over substance.

Nancy has played the hand she was dealt and Schiff and now Nadler are willing and able to facilitate the end of a truly awful time for US politics.

The GOP must decide if they have any choice of winning with Trump or setting up a candidate to go at him in a repugnant primary. The timing couldn’t have been better.

Nancy I salute you.
I really wish I shared your confidence, Ade. For sure, if I were a betting man I'd wager no more than a pound or two at 250-1 against the Senate throwing the SOB out on his hateful, pig-ignorant, lying, whining, spiteful, snarling, lardy baby McNugget cheeseburger arse.

However, although we all pretty much agree that his arse will almost certainly remain in the White House following the Senate trial, I'm still not at all convinced that anyone will dump him - and, even worse in a way, if they did dump him then what better candidate than Don Joonya? To me, that is potentially an even scarier prospect than a second Don Senior term, because although it would unquestionably be the beginning of a dictatorship either way, a DJTJ presidency would also be the beginning of a Kim-style dictatorial dynasty. Junior would retain the entire deplorable vote, and would also probably pick up a sizeable chunk of the vital suburban female vote, a demographic so alienated by the pussy-grabber-in-chief.

I think that the reason why the GOP have gone in so deep with Trump, and are so reluctant to dump him, is that they're betting everything on the belief that if they just hang tough they'll never have to worry about another fair and democratic election in their country - and, clearly, a very sizeable percentage of the US population is complicit and even willing them on.

(Yes, Nancy Pelosi's "Don't mess with me" moment, and her general conduct, will reverberate down the ages :nworthy:)

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 10:32 19 Dec 2019
by MickyD
So there we are: Trump has become only the third US president in history to be impeached. (It would have been four if Nixon hadn't resigned just before the vote.)

It was no surprise to see the GOP behaving disgracefully once again, spouting thoroughly debunked Russian conspiracy theories and even likening the proceedings to Pearl Harbor and - yes - the trial of Jesus, which they reckoned was a walk in the park compared to what poor, innocent Donny has had to endure. (Trump himself, in that totally unhinged six-page letter to Pelosi, reckoned that the impeachment hearings were far less fair than the Salem witch trials.)

It was all very predictable, but one interesting twist right at the end of the day was the lack of confirmation by the Dems that they're going to pass it all over to the Senate any time soon. That could really put a wrinkle in the GOP's hopes for the January whitewash they've been planning, with Moscow Mitch himself blatantly boasting that the Senate GOP has been working hand in hand with the WH and that he has no intention to be an impartial juror (Lindsey Graham has said the same), thus flagrantly breaking the oath that the 100 Senators/jurors will all be swearing prior to the trial. It seems that there is no longer a scrap of decency or morality in that entire party. Yes indeed, everything Trump touches dies.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 16:57 19 Dec 2019
by Ade the green
MickyD wrote: So there we are: Trump has become only the third US president in history to be impeached. (It would have been four if Nixon hadn't resigned just before the vote.)

It was no surprise to see the GOP behaving disgracefully once again, spouting thoroughly debunked Russian conspiracy theories and even likening the proceedings to Pearl Harbor and - yes - the trial of Jesus, which they reckoned was a walk in the park compared to what poor, innocent Donny has had to endure. (Trump himself, in that totally unhinged six-page letter to Pelosi, reckoned that the impeachment hearings were far less fair than the Salem witch trials.)

It was all very predictable, but one interesting twist right at the end of the day was the lack of confirmation by the Dems that they're going to pass it all over to the Senate any time soon. That could really put a wrinkle in the GOP's hopes for the January whitewash they've been planning, with Moscow Mitch himself blatantly boasting that the Senate GOP has been working hand in hand with the WH and that he has no intention to be an impartial juror (Lindsey Graham has said the same), thus flagrantly breaking the oath that the 100 Senators/jurors will all be swearing prior to the trial. It seems that there is no longer a scrap of decency or morality in that entire party. Yes indeed, everything Trump touches dies.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 18:18 20 Dec 2019
by MickyD
Is that like a re-tweet, Ade? :greensmile:

I'm delighted to see that the GOP and Trump are having conniptions over the delay in passing the articles of impeachment to the Senate. There are actually very valid reasons for the delay - negotiating conditions first in an attempt to ensure that the trial isn't a total sham - but aside from that the GOP are being played at their own game, and they've been triggered good and proper! Trump will be fuming right through until next year now, having been denied the speedy "total exoneration" he was banking on in early January..

Another very interesting development, and one that may actually have a serious long-term effect in Trump, is this news:

A leading Christian magazine founded by late evangelist Billy Graham -- father of key presidential supporter Franklin Graham -- published an op-ed on Thursday calling for President Donald Trump to be removed from office and urging evangelicals not to support him.

"We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see.

"None of the president's positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character."

Shame they didn't give a sh1t about his very obvious grossly immoral character when they came out in support prior to the 2016 election and maintained that support all the way up to this point. Still, he's now got them two uber-conservative judges on the Supreme Court, and many hundreds into other judiciary posts, so it looks as if the truth of it is that they reckon they've got enough out of him and it's time to cut him loose before any more stench attaches to them. I wonder if it's a crack in the wall, and that others will now follow? We live in hope.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 15:06 21 Dec 2019
by Ade the green
MickyD wrote: Is that like a re-tweet, Ade? :greensmile:

I'm delighted to see that the GOP and Trump are having conniptions over the delay in passing the articles of impeachment to the Senate. There are actually very valid reasons for the delay - negotiating conditions first in an attempt to ensure that the trial isn't a total sham - but aside from that the GOP are being played at their own game, and they've been triggered good and proper! Trump will be fuming right through until next year now, having been denied the speedy "total exoneration" he was banking on in early January..

Another very interesting development, and one that may actually have a serious long-term effect in Trump, is this news:

A leading Christian magazine founded by late evangelist Billy Graham -- father of key presidential supporter Franklin Graham -- published an op-ed on Thursday calling for President Donald Trump to be removed from office and urging evangelicals not to support him.

"We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see.

"None of the president's positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character."

Shame they didn't give a sh1t about his very obvious grossly immoral character when they came out in support prior to the 2016 election and maintained that support all the way up to this point. Still, he's now got them two uber-conservative judges on the Supreme Court, and many hundreds into other judiciary posts, so it looks as if the truth of it is that they reckon they've got enough out of him and it's time to cut him loose before any more stench attaches to them. I wonder if it's a crack in the wall, and that others will now follow? We live in hope.



Sorry Mickey, I actually did respond in an entirely reply but unfortunately my connection went haywire and my essay didn’t make it.

I’m finding the GOP admission that it will not countenance even the appearance of a fair trial to be very disconcerting. We know there will be no guilty verdict but to petty much say don’t bother to the Democrats goes beyond party politics. That said, the GOP has a strong whip in congress which makes the impeachment vote partisan which follows the GOP narrative of deep state and never Trumpers.

I still believe in the moderate people of America to wake up to what Trump is all about. The vindictiveness to anyone who doesn’t agree 100%, the willingness to embrace foreign (enemy) help in electioneering and the unwillingness to be human should be enough to turn some of the party but there seems to be a fear of their own leader that is paralysing them. I’d love to see a few secret ballots to see if that fear still exists.

I’m exasperated by what has happened in the US as I am with what will now happen in the UK with a leader that can do anything they want and damn the consequences.

I was reading earlier about Lieutenant Lorans’ release and subsequent appearances for Trump at fund raisers etc and despite many of his superiors and subordinates testifying against him (as with the SEAL CPO) that Trump knew better than military justices in his pardons. It’s shocking that this minor cog in the US military questions his superiors as deep state and out to cause harm, a message condemned by Dem and Rep lawmakers. Where will these Republicans be when the final judgement is reckoned?

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 18:04 21 Dec 2019
by MickyD
Ah, thank you! :greensmile:

Last sentence: aye, there's the rub. To be uncool again and quote myself, I'm more and more convinced that what I wrote a couple of weeks ago will turn out to be the case:

I think that the reason why the GOP have gone in so deep with Trump, and are so reluctant to dump him, is that they're betting everything on the belief that if they just hang tough they'll never have to worry about another fair and democratic election in their country - and, clearly, a very sizeable percentage of the US population is complicit and even willing them on.

It feels like the flipside of the attitude to Trump over the last 3+ years by otherwise sane and sensible media types and Democratic politicians, who should know far more about this kind of thing than I do: they genuinely hoped/believed that he'd rise to the great responsibility of the presidency, when I never believed that for one second. You don't spend your entire life being an utterly loathsome and despicable human being then suddenly see the light when you get the top job to end all top jobs. Quite the contrary: you become even nastier and crazier and more corrupt than you've ever been, because - well, because you bloody well can.

And, big surprise, that's exactly what happened. Every step of the way, time and time again, Trump and his appalling cabal of cronies have left the media, the Democrats and much of the country (and the world) utterly aghast at their complete lack of morality and their willingness to do absolutely anything to get their own way and to stay in power. (And, I'll say again: just imagine all the things that have been going on in the shadows that we don't know about, and most likely never will.)

I suppose that the sane and sensible Americans suffered from one big disadvantage that I don't share: they are Americans, and as such they've spent all their lives convinced (with some justification, it must be said) that their system is the best, and is immune to serious corruption thanks to the Founding Fathers' foresight, and as such they couldn't see Trump and the presidency from an outside perspective, believing (naively, as it turned out) that either Trump would, against all logic, suddenly come over all presidential; or at worst that the Constitution and the many checks and balances it provides would guarantee that even a deranged and senescent criminal like Trump would be held to account somewhere along the line. Instead Trump, with the craven, venal collaboration of the party that still calls itself Republican, is on the brink of effectively destroying nearly a quarter of a millennium of (small r) republican (small d) democratic history in the blink of an eye. He is now within a whisker of becoming an autocrat, a dictator, a king. If that comes to pass how ironic it will be, bearing in mind why the United States even exists in the first place.

I know it could be argued that his impeachment has finally held him to account; but if he slimes his way out yet again when it comes to the Senate trial (which he almost certainly will, barring some last-minute revelation on a scale akin to the Watergate tapes, or at least four GOP Senators voting to compel John Bolton and others to testify, and then those witnesses actually telling the truth under oath, which is by no means a given) then he'll become worse than ever - and, god forbid, if he goes on to win again next year then that will truly be the end of what passes for American democracy. Don't forget that he won't even have to worry about pandering to his rabid base by that point, because they will already have re-elected him. He'll do literally whatever he likes, as he already believes he can - except that he can't, quite, just yet. (And doing whatever he likes will, I fear, include making himself President for Life, with royal-esque, or Kim-esque, family succession thereafter.)

America, even more than Britain, has always been deeply conservative and profoundly racist just beneath the surface (witness all the demons that Trump's manic scratchings have unleashed, such as this very recent example) and has been more or less a police state for many decades anyway; but just wait to see what happens if Trump gains a second term - or, as per my earlier post, if Don Junior takes over from Daddy, which could be even worse in the long term.

Re: Donald Trump

Posted: 04:34 22 Dec 2019
by Mike E
I share your deep concerns Micky.

A friend of mines wife works for the UK Foreign Office based in Washington, they are over here for Christmas, and he is saying as much. In the municipal areas around the city there is strong Democrat feeling, but drive ten miles out into the countryside and the 'monster' is treated like some sort of demi God.

All you say is so true and we should be very concerned and wary of our impending trade negotiations. The man has such power and has already got Johnson well and truly in the palm of his hand.

The result of our recent election over here and the power now in Johsons own hands reflects the dictatorial populist trap our two fragile democracies our being sucked into.

Its coincidental how our two FPTP electoral systems enable this to happen, and in turn any governmental system that allows its leader to appoint the judiciary is asking for trouble.

We are entering truly worrying times.