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Palace Admin/Cabs & Babs Hi-Jack

Lundan Cabbie

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,564
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Plymouth
Babararacucudada":jzd9wwyi said:
Lundan Cabbie":jzd9wwyi said:
mde203":jzd9wwyi said:
There is no way that those 5 guys would be a total of £40,000 per week, and no way Barnes, Gow and Donnelly would be on £10,000 in total. They would be on £6,000 per week at most.

Every club in ome way has their troubles, and with our crowds we are bound to be struggling a little. At the end of the season we'll have a shake up, sort out a few players, lower our outgoings and sort out the major issues.

We will not go into administration.
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It only takes ONE creditor to call in administrators. That's what happened at Palace. The club had no choice, had not called them in themselves and didn't see it coming. (well not at that time anyway). On that Tuesday morning, in they walked and told the staff that the club was in administration. No warnimg, they just walked i and took over.
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You make it sound as though the fault lies with the unpaid creditor who expected to be paid for services and/or goods already rendered and who then did the dirty.

Why didn't Palace just pay the bill as they must have agreed to at point of purchase?
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I couldn't have chosen better words myself.

During the close season Simon Jordan claims that he had "liquidity" problems. I'm not sure what that means but from what I understand, he had invested in projects, investment which had become difficault to recal. Not to a point that his investments were lost but couldn't transfer funds to the football club. The film "Telstar" that he produced had flopped and his assets were looking very much just to be on paper rather than easily available.

He took a hedge loan from a company called Agilo and secured the loan against players contracts which in essence meant that Agilo had first call on transfer fees received if Palace defaulted. As the season progressed, the club found it harder to make repayments but then agreed new terms when Agilo became hostile. Palace managed to stick to these new conditions and had done right up until that Tuesday when the Administrators walked in but in doing so got behind with payments to other unsecured creditors and struggled to pay players on time.

The sale of Victor Moses was to clear the majority of this debt to Agilo, if not all if they could secure a big enough fee. With the transfer window a little over a week to closure, Palace were holding out for the best deal but Agilo panicked, thinking that if Moses didn't move in January, they would not get their money until July at the earliset and they appointed Adminstrators to come in and secure their funds.

Agilo have been described as "legal loan sharks." Why oh why did Jordan take his business to them? I'm sure he regrets that now.

What have Agilo acheived by calling in Administrators? They still don't have their money but by doing what they did and seeing as their debt was secured, they are first in the queue for their debt to be repaid and have condemed other creditors to have to accept only a fraction of what they are owed.
 
Lundan Cabbie

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,564
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Plymouth
999mattyg":3b8f5sg8 said:
Lundan Cabbie":3b8f5sg8 said:
mde203":3b8f5sg8 said:
There is no way that those 5 guys would be a total of £40,000 per week, and no way Barnes, Gow and Donnelly would be on £10,000 in total. They would be on £6,000 per week at most.

Every club in ome way has their troubles, and with our crowds we are bound to be struggling a little. At the end of the season we'll have a shake up, sort out a few players, lower our outgoings and sort out the major issues.

We will not go into administration.
Click to expand...


It only takes ONE creditor to call in administrators. That's what happened at Palace. The club had no choice, had not called them in themselves and didn't see it coming. (well not at that time anyway). On that Tuesday morning, in they walked and told the staff that the club was in administration. No warnimg, they just walked i and took over.
Click to expand...

I understood that the Palace financial problem had been brewing for a long time. The problem Palace have is that they don't own their ground so have no assets to offset the debt against! With a lack of investor interest, administration beckons!
Click to expand...


Palace have been far too reliant on Simon Jordan's money and he has personally guaranteed all debts in the past. That was all well and good in the same way that Abramovic looks after Chelsea but on a much smaller scale until he was no longer able to do it. Over ten years he has ploughed £45million into the club but seeing as administration has made public that the club's debt to him stands at £20M, then there must have been good times financialy along the way. When it came to him selling the club though, not owning the ground became his biggest burden by making the sale an unattractive propersition for prospective buyers.
 
Mazza26

Mazza26

Aug 22, 2006
2,330
195
Lundan Cabbie":3p8w07w4 said:
999mattyg":3p8w07w4 said:
Lundan Cabbie":3p8w07w4 said:
mde203":3p8w07w4 said:
There is no way that those 5 guys would be a total of £40,000 per week, and no way Barnes, Gow and Donnelly would be on £10,000 in total. They would be on £6,000 per week at most.

Every club in ome way has their troubles, and with our crowds we are bound to be struggling a little. At the end of the season we'll have a shake up, sort out a few players, lower our outgoings and sort out the major issues.

We will not go into administration.
Click to expand...


It only takes ONE creditor to call in administrators. That's what happened at Palace. The club had no choice, had not called them in themselves and didn't see it coming. (well not at that time anyway). On that Tuesday morning, in they walked and told the staff that the club was in administration. No warnimg, they just walked i and took over.
Click to expand...

I understood that the Palace financial problem had been brewing for a long time. The problem Palace have is that they don't own their ground so have no assets to offset the debt against! With a lack of investor interest, administration beckons!
Click to expand...


Palace have been far too reliant on Simon Jordan's money and he has personally guaranteed all debts in the past. That was all well and good in the same way that Abramovic looks after Chelsea but on a much smaller scale until he was no longer able to do it. Over ten years he has ploughed £45million into the club but seeing as administration has made public that the club's debt to him stands at £20M, then there must have been good times financialy along the way. When it came to him selling the club though, not owning the ground became his biggest burden by making the sale an unattractive propersition for prospective buyers.
Click to expand...

Plus as we've discussed before Palace's wage bill was at one point a whopping 800k a month, roughly double our monthly wage bill!! As you mentioned, more down to Peter Taylor's handling of affairs rather than Warnock who inherited a lot of these players on big wages. Palace's wage bill has decreased, to around 600k a month, but far more than ours and a few clubs in our division.

This is something that I like to point out because last season everyone had nose bleeds when we had our first and only 10k a week player in Emile Mpenza. If only...
 
G

Greenskin

Guest
Lundan Cabbie":1uh5w3r7 said:
999mattyg":1uh5w3r7 said:
Lundan Cabbie":1uh5w3r7 said:
mde203":1uh5w3r7 said:
There is no way that those 5 guys would be a total of £40,000 per week, and no way Barnes, Gow and Donnelly would be on £10,000 in total. They would be on £6,000 per week at most.

Every club in ome way has their troubles, and with our crowds we are bound to be struggling a little. At the end of the season we'll have a shake up, sort out a few players, lower our outgoings and sort out the major issues.

We will not go into administration.
Click to expand...


It only takes ONE creditor to call in administrators. That's what happened at Palace. The club had no choice, had not called them in themselves and didn't see it coming. (well not at that time anyway). On that Tuesday morning, in they walked and told the staff that the club was in administration. No warnimg, they just walked i and took over.
Click to expand...

I understood that the Palace financial problem had been brewing for a long time. The problem Palace have is that they don't own their ground so have no assets to offset the debt against! With a lack of investor interest, administration beckons!
Click to expand...


Palace have been far too reliant on Simon Jordan's money and he has personally guaranteed all debts in the past. That was all well and good in the same way that Abramovic looks after Chelsea but on a much smaller scale until he was no longer able to do it. Over ten years he has ploughed £45million into the club but seeing as administration has made public that the club's debt to him stands at £20M, then there must have been good times financialy along the way. When it came to him selling the club though, not owning the ground became his biggest burden by making the sale an unattractive propersition for prospective buyers.
Click to expand...

My memory may be fairly hazy on this one,but didn't Jordan try to pull a fast one on Noades once by sending a delegation of Arabs to see him on the pretext of being interested in buying the ground,when they were really representing Jordan's own company? Seems to ring a distant bell somewhere.
 
Lundan Cabbie

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,564
1,444
Plymouth
Babararacucudada":1sjrt588 said:
Lundan Cabbie":1sjrt588 said:
Babararacucudada":1sjrt588 said:
Lundan Cabbie":1sjrt588 said:
mde203":1sjrt588 said:
There is no way that those 5 guys would be a total of £40,000 per week, and no way Barnes, Gow and Donnelly would be on £10,000 in total. They would be on £6,000 per week at most.

Every club in ome way has their troubles, and with our crowds we are bound to be struggling a little. At the end of the season we'll have a shake up, sort out a few players, lower our outgoings and sort out the major issues.

We will not go into administration.
Click to expand...


It only takes ONE creditor to call in administrators. That's what happened at Palace. The club had no choice, had not called them in themselves and didn't see it coming. (well not at that time anyway). On that Tuesday morning, in they walked and told the staff that the club was in administration. No warnimg, they just walked i and took over.
Click to expand...

You make it sound as though the fault lies with the unpaid creditor who expected to be paid for services and/or goods already rendered and who then did the dirty.

Why didn't Palace just pay the bill as they must have agreed to at point of purchase?
Click to expand...

I couldn't have chosen better words myself.

During the close season Simon Jordan claims that he had "liquidity" problems. I'm not sure what that means but from what I understand, he had invested in projects, investment which had become difficault to recal. Not to a point that his investments were lost but couldn't transfer funds to the football club. The film "Telstar" that he produced had flopped and his assets were looking very much just to be on paper rather than easily available.

He took a hedge loan from a company called Agilo and secured the loan against players contracts which in essence meant that Agilo had first call on transfer fees received if Palace defaulted. As the season progressed, the club found it harder to make repayments but then agreed new terms when Agilo became hostile. Palace managed to stick to these new conditions and had done right up until that Tuesday when the Administrators walked in but in doing so got behind with payments to other unsecured creditors and struggled to pay players on time.

The sale of Victor Moses was to clear the majority of this debt to Agilo, if not all if they could secure a big enough fee. With the transfer window a little over a week to closure, Palace were holding out for the best deal but Agilo panicked, thinking that if Moses didn't move in January, they would not get their money until July at the earliset and they appointed Adminstrators to come in and secure their funds.

Agilo have been described as "legal loan sharks." Why oh why did Jordan take his business to them? I'm sure he regrets that now.

What have Agilo acheived by calling in Administrators? They still don't have their money but by doing what they did and seeing as their debt was secured, they are first in the queue for their debt to be repaid and have condemed other creditors to have to accept only a fraction of what they are owed.
Click to expand...

I don't really want to argue about this but it seems that you are projecting the blame onto anybody other than yourselves. I must admit to not being entirely au fait with the events leading up to this but it has been suggested that Jordan had put in £45m of his own money, on top of which Selhurst has been sold, on top of which so has the best player you have recently had and still the debts have forced you into the hands of loan sharks (who might well have stiffed you) and are so big that the very future of the club is in doubt.

Thing is this doesn't happen over-night or through a slight bit of misfortune. It's not like your wallet just slipped down the back of the sofa is it? Or you handed over a tenner but got change for a fiver and did not realise until it was too late.

Palace have spent far too much money (compared to their income) for far too long and are facing ruin as a result. That is their fault and not the fault of the company who called the debt in or the court that backed them. This is the simple result of gross mismanagement on a shocking scale and is not bad luck, unfair or any other euphemism you might want to apply.

You are on a Plymouth website here. Haven't mixed us up with Portsmouth, have you? It would explain why you might expect a sympathetic response if you have.

I don't want to see Palace die but if they do it will serve them right.
Click to expand...

The ground was never sold. In 1998 when Ron Noades was selling the club to Mark Goldberg, Goldberg couldn't raise the funds so Noads sold him the club but kept the freehold. Noads owned the ground until just a few years ago. The company that now owns it are now in administration themselves.

I'm back off to Villa Park now. Join me if you wish

Villa v Palace live online
 
Mazza26

Mazza26

Aug 22, 2006
2,330
195
Lundan,
What do you think about Warnock possibly going to QPR?

Does Warnock genuinely want to stay at Palace?
Is this Admin stuff giving him a good excuse to jump ship because possibly the administrators have told Warnock he must take the QPR job so there's more money.

If it's all the above then fine... what can you do if your hands are tied.
However if the administrators have told him to stay and make sure the club aren't relegated then if Warnock decides to leave, what reason can he surely give? He can leave in the summer and either retire or take a job elsewhere. Surely it would be the biggest kick in the teeth if he left palace NOW in the relegation zone, especially as his team have lost 3 home matches in a row.
It's kind of odd because he has basically left the club the same as when he arrived. Of course it's not really his fault, but I always go back to this, last season his team ended up 5 points ahead of ours. That's pretty poor considering he had a massive wage budget, granted it wasn't totally his fault that he inherited this - but who are these players on these big wages? Kuqi? Why couldn't he get the most out of him? Derry? Oster? And what about Alan Lee? He cost over 600k??? Hey?? I thought Palace didn't have much money! So actually in one swoop he has broken our record, and this after selling a load of our best players and given back not even half the amount for transfer funds. Surely Lee was put on a 5k wage and nothing like the wages palace were paying beforehand. I'm confused. :?
I think in all honesty Warnock HAD to get Palace promoted the first season he took over. This season he had up to recently got his team getting results, not necessarily playing great football, but he did well to get them flirting with the play-offs. However it doesn't hide from the fact that he and the club couldn't lower the wage bill... why were the crowds going down? Standard of football? If he's such a great manager why couldn't he get the best out of Morrison, Kuqi etc.. Why did he even go to palace in the first place, or did he not know the full extent of their problems?

I could be wrong here, but without the youngsters coming through I feel Palace would have been long gone ages ago and Warnock for that matter.
When Sturrock couldn't get the best out of MacLean/Walton everyone blamed him, when he forked out 500k for MacLean it was his fault. When he put the world class Mpenza on 10k a week it was his fault that the guy was injury prone, yet the wage budget was still considerably less than Palace. The attendences fell at Home Park, like Selhurst Park. Warnock has a spat with a player it's his passion and dedication coming out, when sturrock has to deal with a serious matter involving one of our players his ego is apparently getting in the way, oh and what a dour man he is! Luggy goes and buys wee nuggets like Noone, Bolasie, Mackie, Johnson... Warnock gets them through the youth system? You could argue why has Luggy only gone for Barnes/Summers from ours, I would argue back by saying the other youngsters are/were not good enough.

Something's not right here... Of course it's not all down to management and there is the stadium problems, chairman etc...
But when one manager is thought of as a hero and the other as the complete opposite. It's almost quite perverse...
In reality there isn't a big difference, just like with many managers around... it's sometimes just down to luck.
 
Lundan Cabbie

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,564
1,444
Plymouth
Wow! So many questions and hard to ponder them all whilst viewing on my mobile.

As for QPR. The administrator has said that maintaining Championship status is important for him to find the best buyer and he sees Warnock as the man to fulfill that. However, the administrator has a duty to the Creditors. Warnock has a contract until July 2011 so any move could attract a compesation package which he can't dismiss lightly. Whether Neil wants to go, he is keeping quiet on that one at the moment.
 
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