Depressing...

Paul_Roberts · Jun 24, 2010

This almost makes me feel sick.

From the Guardian blog...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... -live-blog

8.20am: After yesterday, this World Cup jigsaw is fast coming together. So far the last 16 looks like this:

Uruguay v South Korea
USA v Ghana

with the winners meeting in the quarters, and:

Germany v England
Argentina v Mexico

with the meeting in the quarters.

Assuming results go as expected today and tomorrow - always a dangerous thing to do - we could see:

Holland v Italy
Spain v Brazil

with the winners meeting in the quarters, and:

Paraguay v Denmark
Switzerland v Portugal

with the winners meeting in the quarters.

So even though England are through to the last 16 after yesterday's 1-0 win over Slovenia, they should be shinning themselves today. Because one of Ghana, USA, Uruguay and South Korea will definitely be in a World Cup semi-final ... and Fabio Capello's side would have been in this top bracket if they had scored one more goal in any of their three group games.

Tavypilgrim · Jun 24, 2010

Hence why I spent about 5 minutes screaming at the telly after Capello brought Heskey on.

He was never going to get us that extra goal.

NLG · Jun 24, 2010

I think at the time we were top of the group, USA only scored in extra time.

Hindsight an all that.

Iggy · Jun 24, 2010

Whatever, you cant win trophies without playing and beating the bigger teams, bring on Germany, Ghana were unlucky not to at least draw their game they had bags more chances than we gave Slovenia (who were lucky not to lose 3 0).
We have a chance now, nobody gave us a chance after Algeria and my German mate is well worried about us :grin:

crownhill pilgrim · Jun 24, 2010

I'm more confident about playing Germany than Ghana. We play Germany. This is what we do.

Brixton 'ill Pilgrim · Jun 24, 2010

It could be a real missed opportunity.

For all the talk of raising our game, having to beat the better sides etc I can't recall England defeating many major footballing nations at the big tournaments - Holland in 1996, Germany in 2000 and Argentina in 2002 are the only ones in the time I've been watching football, none at the knockout stages unless you count Spain in 1996.

By contrast, I don't recall us ever being turned over by real minnows. Romania (98 and 2000) are probably the closest, and they were a far better side than any of those we'd be facing if we'd won the group.

Generally England tend to win and lose as you would expect. We don't really do shock results, for better or for worse.

pilgrim_pete · Jun 24, 2010

To win the World Cup we have to beat the likes of Germany and Argentina.

If we can't beat Germany on Sunday, we don't deserve to win it. End of.

greenmarc · Jun 24, 2010

Tavypilgrim":qge70t72 said:
Hence why I spent about 5 minutes screaming at the telly after Capello brought Heskey on.

He was never going to get us that extra goal.

Althou i personally dont rate heskey.............i dont think he was brought on to score but too do what he does best and that is too hold up the ball and too stop Slovenia from launching attacks (trigger esk)

9

Lee Payne · Jun 24, 2010

We seem to play better against the better teams, the run to the semi finals will be difficult but who knows what we can achieve now!!

Brixton 'ill Pilgrim · Jun 24, 2010

pilgrim_pete":m08w0nd6 said:
To win the World Cup we have to beat the likes of Germany and Argentina.

If we can't beat Germany on Sunday, we don't deserve to win it. End of.

Well, yes and no. Obviously if we lose at any stage from now we don't deserve to win it. But beating 4 world class teams in consecutive games, as we will now have to do, is a far harder task than beating two decent sides, then two top ones, as would be the case if we win the case. It's pointless to pretend otherwise

Individual error, fatigue, injury or an outstanding performance from an opposition player (at least one of which is bound to occur over the 4 games) will be far more costly against Germany or Argentina than Ghana or Uruguay.

mike gss · Jun 24, 2010

Brixton 'ill Pilgrim":25e81e7h said:
pilgrim_pete":25e81e7h said:

To win the World Cup we have to beat the likes of Germany and Argentina.

If we can't beat Germany on Sunday, we don't deserve to win it. End of.

Click to expand...

Individual error, fatigue, injury or an outstanding performance from an opposition player (at least one of which is bound to occur over the 4 games) will be far more costly against Germany or Argentina than Ghana or Uruguay.

But other teams are not immune from those factors too. Why shouldn't one of England's players have "an outstanding game"?

(Unlikely... but you never know

)

Iggy · Jun 24, 2010

Brixton 'ill Pilgrim":1r619bzf said:
pilgrim_pete":1r619bzf said:

To win the World Cup we have to beat the likes of Germany and Argentina.

If we can't beat Germany on Sunday, we don't deserve to win it. End of.

Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. Obviously if we lose at any stage from now we don't deserve to win it. But beating 4 world class teams in consecutive games, as we will now have to do, is a far harder task than beating two decent sides, then two top ones, as would be the case if we win the case. It's pointless to pretend otherwise

Individual error, fatigue, injury or an outstanding performance from an opposition player (at least one of which is bound to occur over the 4 games) will be far more costly against Germany or Argentina than Ghana or Uruguay.

And you suggest we do what exactly?

tonycholwell · Jun 24, 2010

crownhillpilgrim":3jglkl37 said:
I'm more confident about playing Germany than Ghana. We play Germany. This is what we do.

Then lose on penalties....this is what we do

Still preferable that than being embarrassed by Mr Messi and friends.

Mazza26 · Jun 24, 2010

Brixton 'ill Pilgrim":kfmnqbsn said:
pilgrim_pete":kfmnqbsn said:

To win the World Cup we have to beat the likes of Germany and Argentina.

If we can't beat Germany on Sunday, we don't deserve to win it. End of.

Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. Obviously if we lose at any stage from now we don't deserve to win it. But beating 4 world class teams in consecutive games, as we will now have to do, is a far harder task than beating two decent sides, then two top ones, as would be the case if we win the case. It's pointless to pretend otherwise

Individual error, fatigue, injury or an outstanding performance from an opposition player (at least one of which is bound to occur over the 4 games) will be far more costly against Germany or Argentina than Ghana or Uruguay.

But England haven't played top opposition for a very long time. Fairly easy qualifying group followed by one of the easiest world cup groups in the history of the tournament, top that off with the fact that England haven't perfomed well so far why should they deserve to play anything but 4 top opponents, and actually England will probably up their game anyhow.
Germany will pose a far greater threat going forward than any team seen so far, but their defence is suprisingly not as strong - England can take advantage of this but every player needs to perform at an optimum level.
With victory highly likely, euphoria will follow and headlines of we can beat anyone will be posted around the world. The next problem as you underline are the 2 or 3 teams that England may face that are even better than Germany. I have said semi final knockout all along and I will stick by it. 3rd/4th position would be a great achievement considering the fact there are around 6 or 7 better teams in this tournament.

pilgrim_pete · Jun 24, 2010

Do they still do the 3rd/4th playoff?

It's not on my wall charts.

Depressing...

Paul_Roberts

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