For me the big test is tomorrow.

Admin followed by a takeover from a new board means that Stapes has done the right thing and walked away for the best of the club.

A pre pack admin followed by Stapes remaining in control means he is only in it for himself.

I will be interested to hear how the pro Stapes lobby defend him if the latter comes to pass.

With regards to the assumption that the club is going to enter admin. tomorrow...

Since the end of January, this is about the third or fourth time some very well connected fans have posted on here and/or have told the media that the 'A' word is about to become reality on a given day. Well, it hasn't happened yet, and I'm not certain it's going to happen tomorrow.

Ridsdale's posse of potential investors not materialised again? or perhaps they're all feverishly bidding against each other? perhaps they've got cold feet?

Rupert is quite correct...although tax is due to be paid to HMRC on the 22nd Feb. by the time a winding up order is issued against this debt, assuming its not paid, then it could be March 22nd before a winding up order is heard in the high court.....Ridsdale is pretty canny at this sort of thing and is more than a match for HMRC.....which is why Stapleton brought him in in the first place....

So basically its the fans fault then.

Unbelievable.

@ Graiser: Maybe a large percentage of the fanbase unfairly vilified Stapleton, and were calling for unrealistic and potentially dangerous levels of investment.

But the point you're missing is: if Stapleton had the courage in his convictions that the way he was running the club was the best possible way, then he should have stuck it out. There're plenty of disliked frugal chairmen running steady ships in the Football League, with fans on their backs telling them to open their wallets. Just look at Blackpool.

Stapleton has my utmost respect for how he ran the club up until 2009. After that point, it all depends on how much responsibility you think he had as a minority shareholder.

legend. I agree with every word of your post, and I would like to see Stapleton stay on as I feel he still has something to offer to get through this mess, but really for the good of the fans I think it would be a good idea if he decided that a completely new era was needed when we come through the other side. This mess wont easily be forgotten and will follow him around for years to come, a bit like the reputation Ridsdale has.

Sorry Ade but I just cannot get my head around this forgiveness rearguard action in support of Stapleton. ALL THIS HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH. Whatever he achieved previously, however much he is a 'true fan', however much we like the idea of a well-meaning local fan being on the board - THAT is the inescapable fact that cannot be avoided. Basically he couldn't have F****d up more if he'd tried.

Revisionist, guilt avoiding, blame shifting BOLLOX .

Out of interest, on your scale of f****d-up-edness where would failing to support Ollie (bankrolling Hayles, SEB, Halmosi, etc sit?). Had he kept us 'within our means' after Pulis had brilliantly trimmed our cloth and we'd dropped back into CCC mediocrity or even relegation a year or two sooner, would you have been saying anything different?, course you wouldn't .

The problems stem from an over-reach in our expenditure, compunded thereafter by an attempt to make good the over-reach by over-reaching some more. And where did the pressure for this over-reach come from?, who was badgering him on a daily basis to "push on"?, to "speculate to accumulate"?, to sign the Julio Goalio who'd take us to the premier league?.

Answer.......for all but a very small few..........all of us, that's who, you included.

It's all very well castigating an individual for our predicament but each and every one of you who pooh poohed the 'slowly slowly catchy monkey' mantra are every bit as much to blame as anyone in the boardroom. All they did was try to give you what you wanted. You were ungrateful then, castigating them for not spending more and now, in this all too convient revisionist demonisation of Stapleton, you are ungrateful now.

We should have lived within our means, some were saying it at the time and it's only them who are absolved from blame, the rest of you have Argyle's blood on your hands and no amount of finger pointing at Paul Stapleton will wash it off. You created the climate for what has followed YOU are reaping what YOU have sewn.

I have a very good memory and can recall vividly the long and bitter arguements we had on here about investment as I was one of the few who was extolling the virtues of restraint, of prudence, of patience. I copped a fair amount of abuse for my trouble as well, as did the others who could see that our historically pathetic support could not sustain a 'balls out' charge for a third promotion.

We are a 2nd/3rd tier club, we are average for a very good reason, our support is bigger than the little clubs but smaller than the big clubs - it's as simple as that. We should have stuck to the 'smaller, better, different' model that saw us rise from the basement on a relatively modest outlay, well within our means. We had no divine right to keep moving up because our fanbase has a limit and gets bored very easily - yet the pressure built month on month, transfer window on transfer window - to "push on", to "speculate to accumulate". FFS is there a collective amnesia sweeping over this site that conveniently forgets all those endless discussions?.

The vindication of my arguements then can give me no satisfaction whatsoever now, I hate where we're at just as much as anyone else. Where I differ from most of you however is that I have clear conscience and I don't seek to apportion blame on one individual, or a few individuals, who simply tried to please the baying pack of wolves ripping at their door, I was never in the pack. You put them under pressure so you share the blame, better still as you created the climate for the over-reach why don't you put YOUR hand up and take the majority of the blame?.

FFS if it's a question of oblivion or Paul Stapleton then is there really a f**king decision to be taken?.

If he does remain involved, or even if he doesn't, remember this discussion a wee bit more vividly than you remember the 'slowly slowly catchy monkey' ones. Don't ever ask the club to push itself beyond what the historically pathetic levels of support for a city of 250,000 can carry EVER AGAIN.[

I have to say that this post is the one that has spelt it out 100% abso-f-king-lutely correct, i've read some bollox on here and i've felt just so depressed and p-ssed of to respond--until this one. You are absolutley spot on, well done with this post, a good dose of honesty, never thought i would say it but thank christ for the Cornish supporters, i for one will be sodding grateful if our club survives whoever's sat on the board and my hand will be ready to part with my ST cash for next season

Thank you for your sanctimony. Us mere mortal fans will try to do better next time.

Regarding the utter debacle that is Argyle, X-Isle and Penzance have it bang on for my money.

With regards to the signings, with the exception of Walton (whom Sturrock strongly implied he had been given a duff character reference on by another manager) and possibly Fallon, I think it was primarily a case of signing good players but them not performing. That's obviously down to the management but how different history might have been if they had.

legend. I agree with every word of your post, and I would like to see Stapleton stay on as I feel he still has something to offer to get through this mess, but really for the good of the fans I think it would be a good idea if he decided that a completely new era was needed when we come through the other side. This mess wont easily be forgotten and will follow him around for years to come, a bit like the reputation Ridsdale has.

Sorry Ade but I just cannot get my head around this forgiveness rearguard action in support of Stapleton. ALL THIS HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH. Whatever he achieved previously, however much he is a 'true fan', however much we like the idea of a well-meaning local fan being on the board - THAT is the inescapable fact that cannot be avoided. Basically he couldn't have F****d up more if he'd tried.

Revisionist, guilt avoiding, blame shifting BOLLOX .

Out of interest, on your scale of f****d-up-edness where would failing to support Ollie (bankrolling Hayles, SEB, Halmosi, etc sit?). Had he kept us 'within our means' after Pulis had brilliantly trimmed our cloth and we'd dropped back into CCC mediocrity or even relegation a year or two sooner, would you have been saying anything different?, course you wouldn't .

The problems stem from an over-reach in our expenditure, compunded thereafter by an attempt to make good the over-reach by over-reaching some more. And where did the pressure for this over-reach come from?, who was badgering him on a daily basis to "push on"?, to "speculate to accumulate"?, to sign the Julio Goalio who'd take us to the premier league?.

Answer.......for all but a very small few..........all of us, that's who, you included.

It's all very well castigating an individual for our predicament but each and every one of you who pooh poohed the 'slowly slowly catchy monkey' mantra are every bit as much to blame as anyone in the boardroom. All they did was try to give you what you wanted. You were ungrateful then, castigating them for not spending more and now, in this all too convient revisionist demonisation of Stapleton, you are ungrateful now.

We should have lived within our means, some were saying it at the time and it's only them who are absolved from blame, the rest of you have Argyle's blood on your hands and no amount of finger pointing at Paul Stapleton will wash it off. You created the climate for what has followed YOU are reaping what YOU have sewn.

I have a very good memory and can recall vividly the long and bitter arguements we had on here about investment as I was one of the few who was extolling the virtues of restraint, of prudence, of patience. I copped a fair amount of abuse for my trouble as well, as did the others who could see that our historically pathetic support could not sustain a 'balls out' charge for a third promotion.

We are a 2nd/3rd tier club, we are average for a very good reason, our support is bigger than the little clubs but smaller than the big clubs - it's as simple as that. We should have stuck to the 'smaller, better, different' model that saw us rise from the basement on a relatively modest outlay, well within our means. We had no divine right to keep moving up because our fanbase has a limit and gets bored very easily - yet the pressure built month on month, transfer window on transfer window - to "push on", to "speculate to accumulate". FFS is there a collective amnesia sweeping over this site that conveniently forgets all those endless discussions?.

The vindication of my arguements then can give me no satisfaction whatsoever now, I hate where we're at just as much as anyone else. Where I differ from most of you however is that I have clear conscience and I don't seek to apportion blame on one individual, or a few individuals, who simply tried to please the baying pack of wolves ripping at their door, I was never in the pack. You put them under pressure so you share the blame, better still as you created the climate for the over-reach why don't you put YOUR hand up and take the majority of the blame?.

FFS if it's a question of oblivion or Paul Stapleton then is there really a f**king decision to be taken?.

If he does remain involved, or even if he doesn't, remember this discussion a wee bit more vividly than you remember the 'slowly slowly catchy monkey' ones. Don't ever ask the club to push itself beyond what the historically pathetic levels of support for a city of 250,000 can carry EVER AGAIN.

Even by your standards Smiffy, that is towards the top of the scale when it comes to self-righteous, moral high ground grabbing bulls**t.

Congrats.

For me the big test is tomorrow.

Admin followed by a takeover from a new board means that Stapes has done the right thing and walked away for the best of the club.

A pre pack admin followed by Stapes remaining in control means he is only in it for himself.

I will be interested to hear how the pro Stapes lobby defend him if the latter comes to pass.

With regards to the assumption that the club is going to enter admin. tomorrow...

Since the end of January, this is about the third or fourth time some very well connected fans have posted on here and/or have told the media that the 'A' word is about to become reality on a given day. Well, it hasn't happened yet, and I'm not certain it's going to happen tomorrow.

I really hope you are right. Numerous threads on the rights and wrongs of the pre pack etc have given us a valuable education on possible outcomes but let's just hold off on the condemnation until it becomes more than conjecture.

So basically its the fans fault then.

Unbelievable.

No, it's the fault of the fans who live in Plymouth, apparently.

Or so we're told by someone who's in 'xile', who obviously has the moral high ground because he doesn't live here and is obviously allowed to slag off everything about the City in which he used to live.

The City is better off without the likes of him.

The simple truth is that if expenditure seriously outstrips income then you have a serious problem and eventually it will come home to roost.

I think we ended up stuck between two stools. Signing players like Gallagher, Ward, Jarret, Sinclair etc would have blown our budget to bits but not signing them didn't exactly work out, did it?

This is old ground but the departures of Gosling, SEB et al were all in their differing ways unavoidable unless the club made some seriously barmy offers to them which our income levels and wage structure could never have justified.

The real problem wasn't so much their sales but the recruitment of players in their wake who just have not delivered value for money.

We can look at our most expensive (?) signings in recent times: McLean, Fallon, Easter, Clark, Patterson, Walton, Gow, Mpenza, Cooper, Johnson. Have any of them really delivered value for the combination of wages and fees involved? How much have they collectively contributed?

They may have all been very poor signings but the responsibility for them lies with various managers and not the board. (Although the board sets the budget that focuses attention on players like them, of course.)

There is much in what X-Isle has said and his post points the spotlight at exactly what sort of club we are rather than what sort of club we might like to be and we had been losing money for a long time before the current troubles hit us and before, crucially, the sales of Norris & Co.

Of course the sales were avoidable,with the exception of SEB.All of the players concerned were under contract until at least the following summer and any board of directors worthy of the name and of the mantra "we'll go for it" would not have dreamed of such actions at a crucial stage of the season.By your logic,the club would never have been promoted in 1974/75,1985/86,2001/2 or 2003/4,when the gates were low before xmas but rose enormously afterwards and we would have had no history at all,instead of a rather mediocre one. The lesson of the folly of selling class players and buying cheaper,over the hill or injury prone ones,which is such a depressing feature of Argyle's history, doesn't seem to have made much impression.And it's noticeable that you make no mention of the money wasted on the plannng and development costs of the "imminent" phase 2,which definitely amounted to £600k and certainly would constitute at least a considerable proportion of the "other operating charges" frequently discussed on here.

So basically its the fans fault then.

Unbelievable.

No, it's the fault of the fans who live in Plymouth, apparently.

Or so we're told by someone who's in 'xile', who obviously has the moral high ground because he doesn't live here and is obviously allowed to slag off everything about the City in which he used to live.

The City is better off without the likes of him.

Draw up your seats, this could be good!

The simple truth is that if expenditure seriously outstrips income then you have a serious problem and eventually it will come home to roost.

I think we ended up stuck between two stools. Signing players like Gallagher, Ward, Jarret, Sinclair etc would have blown our budget to bits but not signing them didn't exactly work out, did it?

This is old ground but the departures of Gosling, SEB et al were all in their differing ways unavoidable unless the club made some seriously barmy offers to them which our income levels and wage structure could never have justified.

The real problem wasn't so much their sales but the recruitment of players in their wake who just have not delivered value for money.

We can look at our most expensive (?) signings in recent times: McLean, Fallon, Easter, Clark, Patterson, Walton, Gow, Mpenza, Cooper, Johnson. Have any of them really delivered value for the combination of wages and fees involved? How much have they collectively contributed?

They may have all been very poor signings but the responsibility for them lies with various managers and not the board. (Although the board sets the budget that focuses attention on players like them, of course.)

There is much in what X-Isle has said and his post points the spotlight at exactly what sort of club we are rather than what sort of club we might like to be and we had been losing money for a long time before the current troubles hit us and before, crucially, the sales of Norris & Co.

Of course the sales were avoidable,with the exception of SEB.All of the players concerned were under contract until at least the following summer and any board of directors worthy of the name and of the mantra "we'll go for it" would not have dreamed of such actions at a crucial stage of the season.By your logic,the club would never have been promoted in 1974/75,1985/86,2001/2 or 2003/4,when the gates were low before xmas but rose enormously afterwards and we would have had no history at all,instead of a rather mediocre one. The lesson of the folly of selling class players and buying cheaper,over the hill or injury prone ones,which is such a depressing feature of Argyle's history, doesn't seem to have made much impression.And it's noticeable that you make no mention of the money wasted on the plannng and development costs of the "imminent" phase 2,which definitely amounted to £600k and certainly would constitute at least a considerable proportion of the "other operating charges" frequently discussed on here.

How do you stop a player leaving if he wants to go? Man U and Liverpool haven't managed it so why should we?

Replacing like for like was the big problem for us as CCC wages had spiralled to ridiculous levels which we couldn't afford along with a lot of other clubs at the same level. We were paying players way under what they could get elsewhere.

To replace those players with the same quality we would have had to pay out transfer fees of 1M+ and pay them 10k+ a week. We were punching way above our weight to the credit of the managers that had brought those players in but it came to an end when those players left.

So X-Isle = graiser = Smiffy ?