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Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 18:43 18 Apr 2011
by Graham Clark
The Football League rules are clear as Rupert has indicated. The 'Football League share' is what allows a club to participate in the Football League. It is only passed to a football club coming out of administration if all the football creditor debt (largely the staff and players) is fully settled. That is an essential prerequisite. No way round it. If the football club is liquidated then it is simply not possible to participate in the Football League.

A new 'phoenix' club (say AFC Argyle) would have to start in league level 9 providing they can prove that they have a ground that meets the required standards. Apart from Home Park I believe there is no other ground within the city boundary that would meet the standard without significant investment within the close season's shortened timescale. Whether Home Park with all its maintenance costs and overheads could sustain a level 9 club remains open to debate.

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 19:03 18 Apr 2011
by PL2 3DQ
Laughter My Ploy wrote:
PL2 3DQ wrote: The situation is still the same. Buttivant submitted his PoF letter for £5m last Friday, the administrator disputed this and talks are still ongoing.


A new kind of craziness surely....someone sends letter....someone receives letter....with something of such importance wouldn't the minimum you would entrust the document to be 'recorded delivery'....my long winded point being how can this be in dispute....it was either delivered or it wasn't


The funding was disputed, not the letter.

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 19:44 18 Apr 2011
by Quintrell_Green
PL2 3DQ wrote:
Laughter My Ploy wrote:
PL2 3DQ wrote: The situation is still the same. Buttivant submitted his PoF letter for £5m last Friday, the administrator disputed this and talks are still ongoing.


A new kind of craziness surely....someone sends letter....someone receives letter....with something of such importance wouldn't the minimum you would entrust the document to be 'recorded delivery'....my long winded point being how can this be in dispute....it was either delivered or it wasn't


The funding was disputed, not the letter.


Presumably the POF letter failed to enclose a bank statement/letter of confirmation from Chartered Accountants/Solicitors. It appears naive or a 'try on' or Irish customs!

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 19:50 18 Apr 2011
by Rupert
PL2 3DQ wrote:
Laughter My Ploy wrote:
PL2 3DQ wrote: The situation is still the same. Buttivant submitted his PoF letter for £5m last Friday, the administrator disputed this and talks are still ongoing.


A new kind of craziness surely....someone sends letter....someone receives letter....with something of such importance wouldn't the minimum you would entrust the document to be 'recorded delivery'....my long winded point being how can this be in dispute....it was either delivered or it wasn't


The funding was disputed, not the letter.


Correct. What was presented by Buttivant fell short of what the administrators deem to be "proof of funding", I gather. Brent and the Irish bid have passed the test.

There's more in the WMN and the Herald tomorrow about the CVA, plus a little bit more about the Irish bid.

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 19:55 18 Apr 2011
by Rupert
Graham Clark wrote: The Football League rules are clear as Rupert has indicated. The 'Football League share' is what allows a club to participate in the Football League. It is only passed to a football club coming out of administration if all the football creditor debt (largely the staff and players) is fully settled. That is an essential prerequisite. No way round it. If the football club is liquidated then it is simply not possible to participate in the Football League.

A new 'phoenix' club (say AFC Argyle) would have to start in league level 9 providing they can prove that they have a ground that meets the required standards. Apart from Home Park I believe there is no other ground within the city boundary that would meet the standard without significant investment within the close season's shortened timescale. Whether Home Park with all its maintenance costs and overheads could sustain a level 9 club remains open to debate.


I know that Guilfoyle has suggested that a new club in Plymouth would be able to play at Home Park, because the venue has to remain a sports stadium, but I too have my doubts. I don't see any club at such a low level could be sure of affording the rent charged by whoever buys Home Park. Unless the Council buys the ground and charges the new club a nominal rent.

By the way, Graham says "level nine". My maths suggests that is the Western League Premier Division. I had been under the impression that a new club would be placed in level eight, the second tier of the Southern League, but I may be wrong. (Eight is the level the new clubs in Chester and Halifax were allocated).

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 20:05 18 Apr 2011
by Waraqah
Rupert wrote:
Graham Clark wrote: The Football League rules are clear as Rupert has indicated. The 'Football League share' is what allows a club to participate in the Football League. It is only passed to a football club coming out of administration if all the football creditor debt (largely the staff and players) is fully settled. That is an essential prerequisite. No way round it. If the football club is liquidated then it is simply not possible to participate in the Football League.

A new 'phoenix' club (say AFC Argyle) would have to start in league level 9 providing they can prove that they have a ground that meets the required standards. Apart from Home Park I believe there is no other ground within the city boundary that would meet the standard without significant investment within the close season's shortened timescale. Whether Home Park with all its maintenance costs and overheads could sustain a level 9 club remains open to debate.


I know that Guilfoyle has suggested that a new club in Plymouth would be able to play at Home Park, because the venue has to remain a sports stadium, but I too have my doubts. I don't see any club at such a low level could be sure of affording the rent charged by whoever buys Home Park. Unless the Council buys the ground and charges the new club a nominal rent.

By the way, Graham says "level nine". My maths suggests that is the Western League Premier Division. I had been under the impression that a new club would be placed in level eight, the second tier of the Southern League, but I may be wrong. (Eight is the level the new clubs in Chester and Halifax were allocated).


I thought the situation was that a phoenix club would be allowed to join at whatever level league (& the clubs within that league) would accept you, so if a level 7 set-up (Zamaretto premier?) said OK then we could come back at that level. As with Rupert, I may be wrong. :)

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 20:10 18 Apr 2011
by Rupert
Chester FC case study:

Link One

Link Two

Link Three

In other words, the FA picks the level, but the club has a right of appeal.

Chester won their appeal and got to start again one level higher than the FA had planned for them. Halifax lost their appeal and got to start again where the FA put them.

Link Four

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 20:17 18 Apr 2011
by Laughter My Ploy
Quintrell_Green wrote:
PL2 3DQ wrote:
Laughter My Ploy wrote:
A new kind of craziness surely....someone sends letter....someone receives letter....with something of such importance wouldn't the minimum you would entrust the document to be 'recorded delivery'....my long winded point being how can this be in dispute....it was either delivered or it wasn't


The funding was disputed, not the letter.


Presumably the POF letter failed to enclose a bank statement/letter of confirmation from Chartered Accountants/Solicitors. It appears naive or a 'try on' or Irish customs!


Sounds like a Stapleton level of attention to detail doesn't it

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 09:09 19 Apr 2011
by Quintrell_Green
Talking of Stapes, I wonder if he is keeping his cherished number plate on his vehicle?

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 09:45 19 Apr 2011
by Waraqah
Rupert wrote: Chester FC case study:

Link One

Link Two

Link Three

In other words, the FA picks the level, but the club has a right of appeal.

Chester won their appeal and got to start again one level higher than the FA had planned for them. Halifax lost their appeal and got to start again where the FA put them.

Link Four


I was wrong. :) Thanks for clarifying that, Rupert.

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 10:21 19 Apr 2011
by X Isle
Tyre kicking across the universe,
On the starship Home Park,
Under Captain Brenda,
Tyre kicking across the universe,
Never going forwards,
Still stuck in reverse.

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 10:26 19 Apr 2011
by crownhillpilgrim
Rupert wrote:
I know that Guilfoyle has suggested that a new club in Plymouth would be able to play at Home Park, because the venue has to remain a sports stadium, but I too have my doubts. I don't see any club at such a low level could be sure of affording the rent charged by whoever buys Home Park. Unless the Council buys the ground and charges the new club a nominal rent.

By the way, Graham says "level nine". My maths suggests that is the Western League Premier Division. I had been under the impression that a new club would be placed in level eight, the second tier of the Southern League, but I may be wrong. (Eight is the level the new clubs in Chester and Halifax were allocated).


Not to mention running costs on such a large ground

Re: Administrator ends talks with Buttivant

Posted: 10:41 19 Apr 2011
by bandwagon
crownhillpilgrim wrote:
Rupert wrote:
I know that Guilfoyle has suggested that a new club in Plymouth would be able to play at Home Park, because the venue has to remain a sports stadium, but I too have my doubts. I don't see any club at such a low level could be sure of affording the rent charged by whoever buys Home Park. Unless the Council buys the ground and charges the new club a nominal rent.

By the way, Graham says "level nine". My maths suggests that is the Western League Premier Division. I had been under the impression that a new club would be placed in level eight, the second tier of the Southern League, but I may be wrong. (Eight is the level the new clubs in Chester and Halifax were allocated).


Not to mention running costs on such a large ground


Perhaps the main stand would close, as surely that is the most expensive part of the ground to run - the 3 sides being so basic and the offices in temp huts like they are, must be relative cheap costings?