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Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 18:27 27 May 2011
by demportdave
Ottawa Green wrote:
er·u·dite/ˈer(y)əˌdīt/
Adjective: Having or showing great knowledge or learning.


hmmm they did'nt teach me that at Tamar :(

You obviously never had the much-feared but well-respected Reg Paige as your English Master then. His favourite mantra was, "The man who reads much, knows much."

PS Old Reg wouldn't think much of your punctuation and grammar either.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 18:32 27 May 2011
by Lee Roberts
This situation with Stapleton reminds me of the interview he gave The Herald and The Official Site after Holloway left.
Blaming other people again.
Last time we all felt sorry for him and believed every word but we now know who was telling the truth in that whole sorry episode.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 18:48 27 May 2011
by LJM
Good Old Stapleton blame other people for this mess,but who was in charge of the club and ok these people to join the board

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 19:05 27 May 2011
by Prodigal_Green
This was nothing more than to be expected really.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 19:23 27 May 2011
by bandwagon
This guy will never convince me, in fact I put him top of the list in the blame game - held on way too long and when eventually painted into a corner invited in the worst of the worst!! Please leave the club alone - you've blown your chance!! :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 19:32 27 May 2011
by Ian Newell
It it helps, I am convinced that Riddler wants nothing to do with him Andy.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 19:34 27 May 2011
by bandwagon
IJN wrote: It it helps, I am convinced that Riddler wants nothing to do with him Andy.



Good!!

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 19:54 27 May 2011
by jimsing
A lot has been said on these boards regarding our former Chairman, and I do believe that he was an excellent Chairman when he was in charge.

However, you must remember that he was forced to give up the Chair to Sir Roy when he and his group of directors became the minority shareholders on the board.

Sir Roy became a titular head, with Todd making all the decisions regarding the Club, with the backing of the Japanese (and Synan) who were directors from afar. Having a majority on the board gives you absolute power, providing you can continue to persuade a majority to your way of thinking. I'm not sure that there was much disagreement other than from the minority directors. Rubber stamping could have been the order of the day.

It has to be said that we DID spend a lot of money on players, in an effort to avoid relegation from the Championship. Not on transfers, maybe, but on players wages, which is why we have had so many players on our books. We were not in a position to wage a bidding war with the likes of Blackpool, for example, over someone like Charlie Adam, but had there not been any other interest in him, we MAY have negotiated a deal, and MAY NOT be in the position we are in now.

However, that is history, and there is no point going over the details. Suffice to say that we DID spend more than we had, a great deal more than we had.

I assumed, incorrectly, that the directors were putting their hands into their pockets, in order to fund this increase in playing staff. After all, if we had succeeded in avoiding relegation the year that we went down, then we would have had £3m tv money, and the hit may not have been so bad.

But I never thought that we would go into debt to such an extent that we did. I naively thought that our directors provided the funds, or perhaps that they borrowed but acted as guarantors. Money that would be paid back when the playing problems were resolved. Never in a million years did I expect our Club to go down the administration route. Didn't occur to me. Didn't give it a thought.

Wow, was I ever wrong.

Perhaps the Japanese contingent DID renege on their promise to put money into the Club. Perhaps the other directors DID provide matched funding, and were awaiting the Japanese money before putting any more money in.

Sounds possible. We may never know.

Had England got the World Cup, there is no doubt in my mind that Plymouth Argyle would have been a Venue, we would have had a new grandstand and the other developments would have gone ahead, providing that we had remained in the Championship.

What could Stapes do? He was in a minority. He could put his two penneth in. He could persuade his fellow directors to agree with him, but he could never win unless he could persuade one of Todd's directors to vote against him. Do turkeys vote for Christmas?

Okay so he could have resigned over a matter of principle.

He would have still been a shareholder, but with no voice on the board. He could have sold his shares. Who was going to buy them? His colleagues could have, but they would still have been in the minority, and what would they have gained? Nothing. Sell to the Japanese, or to Todd/Sir Roy. Did they need them, did they want them. No. They were happy as they were.

Remember that this is just the first installment of what happened (or Stapes version of events, anyway) and is time related, so we will gradually get up to date with more recent events as we go on.

Interesting reading - YES. Biased - PROBABLY, but at least he is giving us something to think about.

Will it be the equivalent of a resulting investigation as to what happened, what went wrong, what could have been done to prevent the eventual outcome - NO, never in a million years, he doesn't have all the information, but he knows more than you or me.

Accept it for what it is, one version of events from one director of the board, who had complete control of the Club (successfully, in my opinion), in his former years, but who lost his power when he invited outsiders in and became a minority shareholder, and saw his, and our, beloved Club drop to the depths of despair within two years.

He will say that he thought he was doing what all the fanbase wanted, by bringing in moneyed men who could take the Club to the next level, and he would be right, that was what we were all craving for, but the Club lost the Chairman who had his finger on the pulse, had an excellent overall knowledge of the Club and how it worked. We also lost Dunford, not required by the new order. Perhaps we should have had alarm bells ringing when this happened. Stapes was replaced by someone who was not football experienced, had all the power that he needed to do what he wanted, had his eye on development, kept a lot of information to himself and his "side", and the Club went down as a consequence, I'm afraid.

The rest is history. It will be interesting to see how Stapes views things from inside the boardroom, but there was NOTHING he could have done to avoid the current outcome. The power was with Keith Todd, and eventually boardroom squabbles from within his group of insiders brought the Club to its knees.

Sad day indeed, and we must all be thankful that we have survived the worst period of our history, so far.

However, make no bones about it, we will be bought by developers, who will only support the Club for their own business reasons. They do not appear to be PAFC supporters, they are only interested in development.

Do not expect anything from them in future years. The Club will have to survive on its own gate receipts.

Don't expect a dalliance with the Premiership unless we can get the gates to warrant it. We will revert to our normal "bottom of the second/top of the third division" which is where we belong.

Cheer up, that means we will have a promotion back up to the third sometime in the future, but don't bank on it being in the next year or two!

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 20:02 27 May 2011
by StaddyGreen
From my understanding of the situation, Stapleton realised the coffers were drying up and saught further investment. That investment was found in a sleeping settle fan, a red knight and a Japanese millionaire. You cannot dream of a bettter combo.
The club spent money on the basis that the Japanese were fullfilling their agreement. After all, thier promise of investment was on officially signed legal paper. The japs wanted big signings. They just didn't have the money to.fund them.
Stapleton is only one seventh of the reasons why this mess happened. We had a divided board, the locals versus the new world. 3 versus 4.
Stapleton did what the fans were crying out for. It backfired. Broken promises, lack of cummunication, you name it, what ever negative factors could have happened, they happened.
At the end if the day I don't believe the.directors were playing with their trainset for the hell of it. The hearts were in the right place, but distractions took their heads off the ball. All 7 of them have lost moneyey. considerate amounts of money. I'm sure that the majority feel the pain as much as we do. And if I was to see stapleton around home park again, it wouldn't bother me. I would thank him for.his hard work and efforts, but agree that mistakes were made. I by no means hate him as some suggest on here, I would rather look on the good times.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 20:20 27 May 2011
by esmer
storming wrote:
esmer wrote:
John_Lloyd wrote: Another view of those "huge contracts", of course, is that they were seen to be necessary to try to attract better-ranked players to replace those lost in the January 08 window.

It was painfully obvious to us all that a majority of those signed at that time were not first-choice options and they certainly weren't first-rank players.

That was the market at the time, however. That wasn't Stapleton's fault. He did what he could to support his manager, at a time when he still did that.

Much as I respect and admire Luggy, it's fair to suggest that new prospects may have been less enthused by the Argyle project than they may have been if the more effusive Holloway had been selling them the story instead.

So, we had to pay over the odds to draw the players in. You'll recall that Fletcher was supposed to come in the summer of 08, but he hesitated and it was another transfer window before he opted to accept our offer. Now, he loves it down here, but his story is a good example of how PAFC often have to pay a premium for our location and our relative dullness, compared to other shinier options that may be available.

Alan Gow is another proof of this truism - only when it was clear that no other club in a better geographical or footballing position would take him did he deign to accept our offer.

So, Stapleton agreed to bankroll the heavier contracts, swayed by the market and his manager, and supported by the continued suggestion of investment from the Far East and then later by the new blood of the New World.

One of these hefty deals, of course, involved a significant conflict of interest, which should draw an appropriate level of scrutiny and criticism.

In essence then, criticising Stapleton for handing out lengthy and lucrative contracts with the benefit of hindsight of the quality of those players misses the real mark. He did what a Chairman is supposed to do - back the judgement of his manager and get the best players he can.

The real target of criticism is on his abilities in the boardroom and in the ledger book.

He knew what the costbase was - he could see what the crowds were. The yawning gulf between the two would have been more apparent to him than most in the Directors Box.

Absolving himself of responsibility as the train slowly went off the tracks in the last twelve months, and allowing himself to go along with the increasingly delusory plans of the Todd/Gardner axis - that was his true failing.

The final roll of the dice - entreating PAST & DT to gamble their liquidity on a last gasp salve for the gaping wound in the Argyle coffers - was a step too far.

There were good intentions and good judgements at first in the Stapleton era, but it has been a long time since I could honestly say that I agreed with the decisions, the strategy and the focus of the board - certainly since the purchase of the freehold, which marked a fork in the road for me.

Thereafter, PAFC stopped being a football club and became instead an investment vehicle.

That is the legacy.

The point is we couldn't afford those players and did not have the guarantee of the investment needed to cover their contracts. It was a huge gamble that failed.


It seems that we could have afforded the players if the Japanese had backed up their promises. ("Mr Stapleton said the Japanese directors claimed to have £3million to pump into the club – and immediately began pushing the board to splash out on pricier players.") What would you do, as chairman, in that situation?

Make sure it was more than a promise - do due diligence and get a contract drawn up. Why risk the club's future on a promise.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 20:24 27 May 2011
by pafc 4eva
Ok, first of all, IF only we had gone for Charlie Adam instead of Gow i cannot help but wonder where we would be now.
Secondly I feel that Stapes does make a resasonable point in terms of being outvoted 4-3 as there is very little he could do, resigning could have just given the Japs a bigger majority and we would all be moaning about how he handed the club over on a plate. Also there hads been suprisingly little about Todd on these forums.
Thirdly the thing that I do not get is why Todd declinded to comment, if I was him I would be telling the media all about Stapes' dirty secrets about Plymouth.
To me I struggle to see how we can put so much blame on Stapes as Todd and the Japs were the ones making all the decisions and running the club, also I am aware that seeing that the "New World" had a majority, they had the ability to hide away the finances book from Stapleton and keep secrets.
Personally I wouldn't mind Stapleton coming back as he is a fan. And us Greens stick together :huddle:

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 20:35 27 May 2011
by Greenskin
jimsing wrote: A lot has been said on these boards regarding our former Chairman, and I do believe that he was an excellent Chairman when he was in charge.

However, you must remember that he was forced to give up the Chair to Sir Roy when he and his group of directors became the minority shareholders on the board.

Sir Roy became a titular head, with Todd making all the decisions regarding the Club, with the backing of the Japanese (and Synan) who were directors from afar. Having a majority on the board gives you absolute power, providing you can continue to persuade a majority to your way of thinking. I'm not sure that there was much disagreement other than from the minority directors. Rubber stamping could have been the order of the day.

It has to be said that we DID spend a lot of money on players, in an effort to avoid relegation from the Championship. Not on transfers, maybe, but on players wages, which is why we have had so many players on our books. We were not in a position to wage a bidding war with the likes of Blackpool, for example, over someone like Charlie Adam, but had there not been any other interest in him, we MAY have negotiated a deal, and MAY NOT be in the position we are in now.

However, that is history, and there is no point going over the details. Suffice to say that we DID spend more than we had, a great deal more than we had.

I assumed, incorrectly, that the directors were putting their hands into their pockets, in order to fund this increase in playing staff. After all, if we had succeeded in avoiding relegation the year that we went down, then we would have had £3m tv money, and the hit may not have been so bad.

But I never thought that we would go into debt to such an extent that we did. I naively thought that our directors provided the funds, or perhaps that they borrowed but acted as guarantors. Money that would be paid back when the playing problems were resolved. Never in a million years did I expect our Club to go down the administration route. Didn't occur to me. Didn't give it a thought.

Wow, was I ever wrong.

Perhaps the Japanese contingent DID renege on their promise to put money into the Club. Perhaps the other directors DID provide matched funding, and were awaiting the Japanese money before putting any more money in.

Sounds possible. We may never know.

Had England got the World Cup, there is no doubt in my mind that Plymouth Argyle would have been a Venue, we would have had a new grandstand and the other developments would have gone ahead, providing that we had remained in the Championship.

What could Stapes do? He was in a minority. He could put his two penneth in. He could persuade his fellow directors to agree with him, but he could never win unless he could persuade one of Todd's directors to vote against him. Do turkeys vote for Christmas?

Okay so he could have resigned over a matter of principle.

He would have still been a shareholder, but with no voice on the board. He could have sold his shares. Who was going to buy them? His colleagues could have, but they would still have been in the minority, and what would they have gained? Nothing. Sell to the Japanese, or to Todd/Sir Roy. Did they need them, did they want them. No. They were happy as they were.

Remember that this is just the first installment of what happened (or Stapes version of events, anyway) and is time related, so we will gradually get up to date with more recent events as we go on.

Interesting reading - YES. Biased - PROBABLY, but at least he is giving us something to think about.

Will it be the equivalent of a resulting investigation as to what happened, what went wrong, what could have been done to prevent the eventual outcome - NO, never in a million years, he doesn't have all the information, but he knows more than you or me.

Accept it for what it is, one version of events from one director of the board, who had complete control of the Club (successfully, in my opinion), in his former years, but who lost his power when he invited outsiders in and became a minority shareholder, and saw his, and our, beloved Club drop to the depths of despair within two years.

He will say that he thought he was doing what all the fanbase wanted, by bringing in moneyed men who could take the Club to the next level, and he would be right, that was what we were all craving for, but the Club lost the Chairman who had his finger on the pulse, had an excellent overall knowledge of the Club and how it worked. We also lost Dunford, not required by the new order. Perhaps we should have had alarm bells ringing when this happened. Stapes was replaced by someone who was not football experienced, had all the power that he needed to do what he wanted, had his eye on development, kept a lot of information to himself and his "side", and the Club went down as a consequence, I'm afraid.

The rest is history. It will be interesting to see how Stapes views things from inside the boardroom, but there was NOTHING he could have done to avoid the current outcome. The power was with Keith Todd, and eventually boardroom squabbles from within his group of insiders brought the Club to its knees.

Sad day indeed, and we must all be thankful that we have survived the worst period of our history, so far.

However, make no bones about it, we will be bought by developers, who will only support the Club for their own business reasons. They do not appear to be PAFC supporters, they are only interested in development.

Do not expect anything from them in future years. The Club will have to survive on its own gate receipts.

Don't expect a dalliance with the Premiership unless we can get the gates to warrant it. We will revert to our normal "bottom of the second/top of the third division" which is where we belong.

Cheer up, that means we will have a promotion back up to the third sometime in the future, but don't bank on it being in the next year or two!



In what way was Stapleton forced to bring Gardner,Todd,Kagami et al to the club in the first place? Gill stated in his resignation letter that other avenues of investment were not sought-"other plans were in place"-remember that? It was the old boards decision to bring the various factions into the picture and it was a disaster waiting to happen right from the start with so many diverse interests involved,with a convoluted decision making process inevitably leading to power struggles and blurred chains of command.It was also the decision of the old board to purchase the freehold and take the road of property development [which didn't materialise anyway] as evidenced by the resignations from that board of messrs Jones,Foot and Warren.

Interesting comparison with Blackpool,too.It strikes me as rather odd that you say we weren't in a position to wage a bidding war with them for Adam,then later you say "don't expect a dalliance with the premiership unless gates warrant it".Blackpool had more than a dalliance with the premiership on gates of 8000,so your conclusions don't entirely seem to be logical to me.Personally,i can't say that i'm "thankful" that Argyle have survived this period,more bloody angry that it ever happened in the first place.And i'm far from convinced that the whole scenario at the moment is any more than a Ridsdale concocted stitch up, or that the club has been professionally and openly marketed.Different people,different horizons,i suppose.

Re: Today's Herald (Paul Stapleton Interview)

Posted: 20:56 27 May 2011
by knecht
jimsing wrote: A lot has been said on these boards regarding our former Chairman, and I do believe that he was an excellent Chairman when he was in charge.

However, you must remember that he was forced to give up the Chair to Sir Roy when he and his group of directors became the minority shareholders on the board.

.........................
However, make no bones about it, we will be bought by developers, who will only support the Club for their own business reasons. They do not appear to be PAFC supporters, they are only interested in development.

Do not expect anything from them in future years. The Club will have to survive on its own gate receipts.

Don't expect a dalliance with the Premiership unless we can get the gates to warrant it. We will revert to our normal "bottom of the second/top of the third division" which is where we belong.

Cheer up, that means we will have a promotion back up to the third sometime in the future, but don't bank on it being in the next year or two!



A long comment from jimsing of rare erudition, balance and insight! Thank you! It was good to read.

One of your many comments with which I agreed was the one that pointed out that this is merely the first of a series of articles. And yet the baying mob are wanting to hang him after just the one brief article!

I have found it difficult to understand the vehemence directed at Paul Stapleton far more than most of the other members of the board (with perhaps the exception of "Johnny Foreigner" - and, by the way, did the attempted approach to our titular president in Japan and enlist his help get anywhere?). Is it a case of jealousy at the local boy who done good? I would not have blamed him for keeping his head down for ever - the response he has received so far would have made lesser men baulk at the prospect of raising his head again. Instead he has come forward to put his version of events. Well done to him. He was a good chairman. The machinations behind the scenes of the club we will never truly know - all we are left with is a need to dump our anger at Argyle's current plight on someone's door-step. Paul Stapleton seems to have become the butt of people's fantasies. Surely people should have grown out of playing "goodies & baddies" a long time ago.

I am far more concerned about the immediate future - if Ridsdale's court appearance goes against him, where does that leave us? I am also concerned about the medium term - what are the implications of having these shady property dealers owning our club? I am certainly not comfortable if they remain shadowy figures.