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Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 19:20 04 Nov 2011
by Flagman
Brian Pedley wrote:
dennis the menace wrote:
jerryatricjanner wrote:
dunlop wrote:
grovehill wrote: As the CPer's have worked so closely (and effectively) with the new owner in the past, they could be portrayed in the future as being "too close" to be truly objective and independent.

Whilst everyone seems to be best of buddies at present, it must be remembered that the aims of the owner and of the fans might not tally so much in the future.


As for the Trust representing all fans, I would point out that 25%-30% of the average gate at the bottom of the League (and a mere 10% of the gate in better times) is not an overwhelming mandate.


I agree regards the closeness "familiarity breeds contempt".I can understand this meeting taking place, no doubt as a thank you and informing the CP team more details on the way forward. The majority of the fans are not yet represented, the trust is the largest body that represents 1500 aprox fans, they must stay independent and focus on increasing the membership at present there does not seem any proactive advertising to increase the membership .The sooner the trust get an elected committee and get a mandate the better at present it looks like there are a clique of people given their views.

Unfortunately during the last couple of months prior to takeover there wasn't a lot of time for forming committees and sub comittees, holding elections and to pontificate. It required a small band of doers who got off their arses and showed tremendous dedication and will to succeed, giving up all their free time to help save the club. I am sure once things have settled down a more democratic way forward will ensue.


Exactly!

Just one week into the new era I can't believe there are those who doubt the integrity of those who are presently on the Contingency Group Committee. If it had been left to democratic elections in our hour of need there would have been no club.
If the CP are being engaged in talks with JB it is because he sees them as the most relevant individuals who can represent the fan base at present. I don't remember any other body being put forward to be the voice of fans and I suspect the majority approve of what the CP have been doing and just glad that someone came forward.


Agreed, mate.

Perhaps those of the Eeyore persuasion would be better served with a group of their own. And they can all sit, in some grim little garret in Estover, nursing their halves of Mackeson, chewing the ends of their hankies in unison, while the rest of us get on with backing our club, James Brent, the GTs and the Trust.

Brian please take the time to read my post above. This thread hasn't turned into a 'how can we put barriers in the way' but 'how can we do thing properly'. A positive post not a negative post. Those who bother to read the comments and have some intelligence may work that out for themselves.

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 20:12 04 Nov 2011
by Wilfredo
Avignon Green wrote: I have great admiration and respect for all those involved in the contingency group and the GT's. Through all of their efforts they have helped to ensure PAFC's exit from administration and in no way do I begrudge them being given a few "perks" by way of a thank you from both James Brent and the wider fanbase.

I do however feel that John Vaughan has a point in his original post in that the Contingency Group seem to have transformed into the Consultancy Group. Again I believe it is a positive thing that the new owner is engaging with fans but feel that any official meeting (and the original post does give the tone of an official meeting) should be organised through either the trust or an official supporters group, otherwise there seems to be no point in the Trust even existing.

If the club is serious about progressing both in the short and long term then it needs to project an inclusive image and I'm afraid consulting a group of well meaning but unelected fans representatives drawn from a small cross section of people is not going to help the club reach out to the less dedicated supporters who Argyle will need to attract if they want to progress out of the lower leagues.


Well said, at last somebody who talks sense

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 20:13 04 Nov 2011
by briangreen
dennis the menace wrote:
jerryatricjanner wrote:
dunlop wrote:
grovehill wrote: As the CPer's have worked so closely (and effectively) with the new owner in the past, they could be portrayed in the future as being "too close" to be truly objective and independent.

Whilst everyone seems to be best of buddies at present, it must be remembered that the aims of the owner and of the fans might not tally so much in the future.


As for the Trust representing all fans, I would point out that 25%-30% of the average gate at the bottom of the League (and a mere 10% of the gate in better times) is not an overwhelming mandate.


I agree regards the closeness "familiarity breeds contempt".I can understand this meeting taking place, no doubt as a thank you and informing the CP team more details on the way forward. The majority of the fans are not yet represented, the trust is the largest body that represents 1500 aprox fans, they must stay independent and focus on increasing the membership at present there does not seem any proactive advertising to increase the membership .The sooner the trust get an elected committee and get a mandate the better at present it looks like there are a clique of people given their views.

Unfortunately during the last couple of months prior to takeover there wasn't a lot of time for forming committees and sub comittees, holding elections and to pontificate. It required a small band of doers who got off their arses and showed tremendous dedication and will to succeed, giving up all their free time to help save the club. I am sure once things have settled down a more democratic way forward will ensue.


Exactly!

Just one week into the new era I can't believe there are those who doubt the integrity of those who are presently on the Contingency Group Committee. If it had been left to democratic elections in our hour of need there would have been no club.
If the CP are being engaged in talks with JB it is because he sees them as the most relevant individuals who can represent the fan base at present. I don't remember any other body being put forward to be the voice of fans and I suspect the majority approve of what the CP have been doing and just glad that someone came forward.



:iagree:

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 20:14 04 Nov 2011
by briangreen
dennis the menace wrote:
jerryatricjanner wrote:
dunlop wrote:
grovehill wrote: As the CPer's have worked so closely (and effectively) with the new owner in the past, they could be portrayed in the future as being "too close" to be truly objective and independent.

Whilst everyone seems to be best of buddies at present, it must be remembered that the aims of the owner and of the fans might not tally so much in the future.


As for the Trust representing all fans, I would point out that 25%-30% of the average gate at the bottom of the League (and a mere 10% of the gate in better times) is not an overwhelming mandate.


I agree regards the closeness "familiarity breeds contempt".I can understand this meeting taking place, no doubt as a thank you and informing the CP team more details on the way forward. The majority of the fans are not yet represented, the trust is the largest body that represents 1500 aprox fans, they must stay independent and focus on increasing the membership at present there does not seem any proactive advertising to increase the membership .The sooner the trust get an elected committee and get a mandate the better at present it looks like there are a clique of people given their views.

Unfortunately during the last couple of months prior to takeover there wasn't a lot of time for forming committees and sub comittees, holding elections and to pontificate. It required a small band of doers who got off their arses and showed tremendous dedication and will to succeed, giving up all their free time to help save the club. I am sure once things have settled down a more democratic way forward will ensue.


Exactly!

Just one week into the new era I can't believe there are those who doubt the integrity of those who are presently on the Contingency Group Committee. If it had been left to democratic elections in our hour of need there would have been no club.
If the CP are being engaged in talks with JB it is because he sees them as the most relevant individuals who can represent the fan base at present. I don't remember any other body being put forward to be the voice of fans and I suspect the majority approve of what the CP have been doing and just glad that someone came forward.



:iagree:

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 20:21 04 Nov 2011
by briangreen
Flagman wrote:
Brian Pedley wrote:
dennis the menace wrote:
jerryatricjanner wrote:
dunlop wrote:
grovehill wrote: As the CPer's have worked so closely (and effectively) with the new owner in the past, they could be portrayed in the future as being "too close" to be truly objective and independent.

Whilst everyone seems to be best of buddies at present, it must be remembered that the aims of the owner and of the fans might not tally so much in the future.


As for the Trust representing all fans, I would point out that 25%-30% of the average gate at the bottom of the League (and a mere 10% of the gate in better times) is not an overwhelming mandate.


I agree regards the closeness "familiarity breeds contempt".I can understand this meeting taking place, no doubt as a thank you and informing the CP team more details on the way forward. The majority of the fans are not yet represented, the trust is the largest body that represents 1500 aprox fans, they must stay independent and focus on increasing the membership at present there does not seem any proactive advertising to increase the membership .The sooner the trust get an elected committee and get a mandate the better at present it looks like there are a clique of people given their views.

Unfortunately during the last couple of months prior to takeover there wasn't a lot of time for forming committees and sub comittees, holding elections and to pontificate. It required a small band of doers who got off their arses and showed tremendous dedication and will to succeed, giving up all their free time to help save the club. I am sure once things have settled down a more democratic way forward will ensue.


Exactly!

Just one week into the new era I can't believe there are those who doubt the integrity of those who are presently on the Contingency Group Committee. If it had been left to democratic elections in our hour of need there would have been no club.
If the CP are being engaged in talks with JB it is because he sees them as the most relevant individuals who can represent the fan base at present. I don't remember any other body being put forward to be the voice of fans and I suspect the majority approve of what the CP have been doing and just glad that someone came forward.


Agreed, mate.

Perhaps those of the Eeyore persuasion would be better served with a group of their own. And they can all sit, in some grim little garret in Estover, nursing their halves of Mackeson, chewing the ends of their hankies in unison, while the rest of us get on with backing our club, James Brent, the GTs and the Trust.

Brian please take the time to read my post above. This thread hasn't turned into a 'how can we put barriers in the way' but 'how can we do thing properly'. A positive post not a negative post. Those who bother to read the comments and have some intelligence may work that out for themselves.


and the fans trust, James Brent etc don't know how to do things properly?
Go on please, educate us and show us how to do things properly :shock: we're waiting....

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 21:59 04 Nov 2011
by Andy_S
Hey ho!

Doesn't take long for the lunatics to try taking over the asylum again.

Envy really is such an ugly thing.

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 01:05 05 Nov 2011
by monkeywrench
dunlop wrote:
monkeywrench wrote:
dunlop wrote:
Wozzer Bowden wrote: All I can ask as far as the Trust is concerned is patience. We are under going a change on the board and there will have to be a change of focus. We have our first meeting tomorrow since the departures and top of the agenda is the election. In my view this must happen as soon as possible.

We were invited to the meeting today by James Brent (represented by Gareth Nicholson) and all indications are that he does want dialogue with the Trust and we must see this as a positive. As I said on another post, we welcome James and will be supportive of him but challenging when necessary.


Wosser thanks for the update(crucial you do this on a regular basis) my fear is that the trust will start to lose membership if we don't see some sort of action.


Out of interest Dunlop, what sort of action do you mean?


Monkey the first action is to have a membership drive! I fear now the club hase been saved membership may dwindle,the goal must be to get all supporters members the second wosser has already answered to get an elected committee I hope in an open forum.
And from a personal point of view start a campaign to get the malignant 7 accountable for what their actions has damged our club


In which case dunlop I'm in full agreement!

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 09:30 05 Nov 2011
by Shane Harris
dbgreen wrote:
monkeywrench wrote:
tonycholwell wrote:
monkeywrench wrote:
tonycholwell wrote: Reading between the lines as we eare encouraged to do, seems to me a JB sponsored lunch as a thank you to the CPers. However, by calling it a meeting, avoids tax issues, like "benefits in kind".

Not sure anyone could deny someone else a free lunch.


Business entertainment is non deductible Tony, meeting or no meeting.


Thats why you dont call it entertainment:)


Haha, like it. :-)

Well, you can call it what you like, the expenses incurred are still not deductible!!!


Really? Always ways around such things

From HMRC

...a deduction may be due if the employee is required for genuine business reasons to entertain
customers, suppliers, or other business connections in the course of performing the duties of
the employment.
The expenses of a particular occasion are normally allowable if the purpose was to discuss a
particular business project. They may also be allowable if the purpose was to maintain an existing
business connection or to form a new one, even though no business was actually done.


God I'm boring knowing that!!


Why don't the self employed pay their tax just like the rest of us.

I can see the thinking in this case of genuine costs incurred when trying to generate business being deductible, no problem with that but it is the determination to avoid tax as far as is possible that gets me.

HMRC are pathetic in accepting tax returns that are farcical.

No different to benefit cheats in my opinion.

That is why when i hear the private sector slagging off the public sector i think one thing, hypocrites.

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 11:35 05 Nov 2011
by tonsk
monkeywrench wrote:
dunlop wrote:
monkeywrench wrote:
dunlop wrote:
Wozzer Bowden wrote: All I can ask as far as the Trust is concerned is patience. We are under going a change on the board and there will have to be a change of focus. We have our first meeting tomorrow since the departures and top of the agenda is the election. In my view this must happen as soon as possible.

We were invited to the meeting today by James Brent (represented by Gareth Nicholson) and all indications are that he does want dialogue with the Trust and we must see this as a positive. As I said on another post, we welcome James and will be supportive of him but challenging when necessary.


Wosser thanks for the update(crucial you do this on a regular basis) my fear is that the trust will start to lose membership if we don't see some sort of action.


Out of interest Dunlop, what sort of action do you mean?


Monkey the first action is to have a membership drive! I fear now the club hase been saved membership may dwindle,the goal must be to get all supporters members the second wosser has already answered to get an elected committee I hope in an open forum.
And from a personal point of view start a campaign to get the malignant 7 accountable for what their actions has damged our club


In which case dunlop I'm in full agreement!


I like your last point. Count me in on that one!


tonsk

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 11:43 05 Nov 2011
by PL2 3DQ
Too much is being made of a so-called "free lunch". The meeting lasted just over 3 hours and the "free lunch" was a small part of that and as James says...

The primary purpose of the meeting was to explore ways of better involving the Green Army in the Club's governance going forward. The meeting was very constructive and a number of alternatives were debated. James agreed to take away the opinions expressed and develop a proposal. This will be presented to fans at a meeting to be arranged.

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 12:14 05 Nov 2011
by grovehill
Bodmin Tew wrote:
grovehill wrote: As the CPer's have worked so closely (and effectively) with the new owner in the past, they could be portrayed in the future as being "too close" to be truly objective and independent.

Whilst everyone seems to be best of buddies at present, it must be remembered that the aims of the owner and of the fans might not tally so much in the future.


As for the Trust representing all fans, I would point out that 25%-30% of the average gate at the bottom of the League (and a mere 10% of the gate in better times) is not an overwhelming mandate.


Hooray.....!

He's here, he's back
He can't stop talking Cack
Groveyhill, Groveyhill

Noticed you went missing for 3 or 4 days last week when the takeover went through. Was the mutual loving and feeling of positivity too much for your keyboard to function?

Have a lovely weekend.


Everyone's entitled to their point of view.
If you disagree with me Bodmin, try to use things like reasoned argument, logic, facts etc. rather than ditties that would be more worthy of a nine-year-old (which I presume you are not)

Re: Contingency Group Meeting tomorrow

Posted: 12:59 05 Nov 2011
by Mark Pedlar
OK - so let's try getting this thread back on track. Here's a suggestion.

There's a number of supporters groups - branches around the country, then there is the Trust, Senior Greens and Season ticket holders. The Trust and the branches have, or will have, elected reps. Senior Greens have an organising committe (?) Which must have a chair etc. That leaves the ST holders and maybe a couple of independents to put forward views of non-ST holders and groups I've no doubt forgotten.

Assuming Green Taverners will liaise directly with the club (although they may like a foot in each camp) and stand outside the communication process why not have a regular meeting (like the CP meetings with slightly updated reps) continuing into the future taking feedback to/from the "masses" via post, email, websites or whatever suits that particular group. I'm sure JB wouldn't be able to attend every meeting - he's a busy man but perhaps the club could identify an individual (not Rick) who could act as a suitable inter-mediary.

Thoughts?