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Loving 2019 (split thread - political)

Posted: 19:10 23 Jan 2019
by Gary_Wills
Justin wrote:
Gary_Wills wrote: Or any evidence that "thuggery is on the rise around the world" ?


You haven’t been made aware of the rise in far right thuggery (and terrorism) and racism in the UK, the US and in most of Europe, where it’s heavily attached to football?


Aware, in the sense of exposure to certain selective media, sure.
Remotely objective sources to confirm a general rise, no.
Please share, if aware of any.

Re: Loving 2019

Posted: 20:01 23 Jan 2019
by Justin
Gary_Wills wrote:
Justin wrote:
Gary_Wills wrote: Or any evidence that "thuggery is on the rise around the world" ?


You haven’t been made aware of the rise in far right thuggery (and terrorism) and racism in the UK, the US and in most of Europe, where it’s heavily attached to football?


Aware, in the sense of exposure to certain selective media, sure.
Remotely objective sources to confirm a general rise, no.
Please share, if aware of any.


Ok. For starters -

The murder of Labour MP Jo Cox.

The Finsbury Park Mosque murder - as reported here :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42910051

Recent news articles here:

https://news.sky.com/story/frenzy-of-ha ... s-11609611

https://www.ft.com/content/edb1099e-fec ... e208d3e521

Germany:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbU54wZsabs

Racism and homophobia in football on the rise:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46344677

Re: Loving 2019

Posted: 21:40 23 Jan 2019
by Bristol Rich
Justin wrote:
Gary_Wills wrote:
Justin wrote:
Gary_Wills wrote: Or any evidence that "thuggery is on the rise around the world" ?


You haven’t been made aware of the rise in far right thuggery (and terrorism) and racism in the UK, the US and in most of Europe, where it’s heavily attached to football?


Aware, in the sense of exposure to certain selective media, sure.
Remotely objective sources to confirm a general rise, no.
Please share, if aware of any.


Ok. For starters -

The murder of Labour MP Jo Cox.

The Finsbury Park Mosque murder - as reported here :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42910051

Recent news articles here:

https://news.sky.com/story/frenzy-of-ha ... s-11609611

https://www.ft.com/content/edb1099e-fec ... e208d3e521

Germany:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbU54wZsabs

Racism and homophobia in football on the rise:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46344677


There has always been horrific terrible events happening in the world. What there hasn't always been is 24 hour news coverage telling us about these terrible events.

For example when I was younger the troubles in Northern Ireland were the most prominent form of terror, that's why it was alarming to see terrorist activity in Northern Ireland at the weekend.

However none of this has anything to do with Adam' getting booed and shouted at a few months ago. It wasn't anything like thuggery and it was ridiculous of Adams to claim it was. It was relatively tame compared to how supporters of a big club would have acted. There were no riots and no arrests, it was heat of the moment frustration.

Re: Loving 2019 (split thread - political)

Posted: 23:03 23 Jan 2019
by MickyD
I must sadly chip in and say that I also feel that "thuggery" in many countries including our own - far more overt expressions of racism and intolerance, the steep rise in hate crimes, cyber-bullying, the truly shocking debasement of political discourse and certain areas of "journalism", the re-emergence of the far right as a serious political force (it's clear as day, 24 hour news cycles or no) - has increased dramatically in the last few years.

What I'm not at all sure I agree with, though, is the notion that thuggery is worse in football than it used to be. Anybody who's been around long enough to have attended a great many live matches in the 70s, as I did, will know that things used to be a whole hell of a lot worse in pretty much every respect. I kind of took it all for granted at the time - the 70s were a really sh1tty decade in many ways - but in and around a football ground on match day back then was often a really horrible and scary place to be.

Re: Loving 2019 (split thread - political)

Posted: 15:24 24 Jan 2019
by crownhillpilgrim

Re: Loving 2019 (split thread - political)

Posted: 04:54 08 Feb 2019
by greeneagle
MickyD wrote: I must sadly chip in and say that I also feel that "thuggery" in many countries including our own - far more overt expressions of racism and intolerance, the steep rise in hate crimes, cyber-bullying, the truly shocking debasement of political discourse and certain areas of "journalism", the re-emergence of the far right as a serious political force (it's clear as day, 24 hour news cycles or no) - has increased dramatically in the last few years.

What I'm not at all sure I agree with, though, is the notion that thuggery is worse in football than it used to be. Anybody who's been around long enough to have attended a great many live matches in the 70s, as I did, will know that things used to be a whole hell of a lot worse in pretty much every respect. I kind of took it all for granted at the time - the 70s were a really sh1tty decade in many ways - but in and around a football ground on match day back then was often a really horrible and scary place to be.


I was around in UK in the 70's and football violence was quite prevalent. I also voted for the UK to join the Common Market.
Agree that the emergence and increasing impact of the right is having a real effect.
What interests me are the reasons for this sudden shift. Social-economic, over governance, racial and religious tensions and so on.
It will require something/someone really special to overcome the above.