They were probably praying for you to stfu.

We get it. You're going to sh1t your pants on here every time there's a tragedy involving religion in some way. You're yet another in the long list of tedious single-issue bores that seems so prevalent on the internet. I'd ask you to spare us the banality but I know the internet well enough to know how fruitless that would be.

Very constructive and educated argument. Well done. If you have nothing intelligent to add then jog on.

The thread is about Religion and prayer. I brought up a relevant and excellent point. Care to counter it or are you just going to throw insults?

They were probably praying for you to stfu.

We get it. You're going to sh1t your pants on here every time there's a tragedy involving religion in some way. You're yet another in the long list of tedious single-issue bores that seems so prevalent on the internet. I'd ask you to spare us the banality but I know the internet well enough to know how fruitless that would be.

Very constructive and educated argument. Well done. If you have nothing intelligent to add then jog on.

The thread is about Religion and prayer. I brought up a relevant and excellent point. Care to counter it or are you just going to throw insults?

Oh the irony

No, you brought up someone's personal tragedy in order to score points on a message board

They were probably praying for you to stfu.

We get it. You're going to sh1t your pants on here every time there's a tragedy involving religion in some way. You're yet another in the long list of tedious single-issue bores that seems so prevalent on the internet. I'd ask you to spare us the banality but I know the internet well enough to know how fruitless that would be.

Very constructive and educated argument. Well done. If you have nothing intelligent to add then jog on.

The thread is about Religion and prayer. I brought up a relevant and excellent point. Care to counter it or are you just going to throw insults?

Oh the irony

No, you brought up someone's personal tragedy in order to score points on a message board

Quite right t._green - reminds me of the trolls who delight in other people's misfortune. A really sad person.

When there are preventable child deaths then I believe it is a duty of society to discuss and seek to a way of stopping/reducing the chances of it happening in the future. Neglect is neglect and it shouldn't be shied away from for fear of offending any individual or group.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... dical-help

They were probably praying for you to stfu.

We get it. You're going to sh1t your pants on here every time there's a tragedy involving religion in some way. You're yet another in the long list of tedious single-issue bores that seems so prevalent on the internet. I'd ask you to spare us the banality but I know the internet well enough to know how fruitless that would be.

Very constructive and educated argument. Well done. If you have nothing intelligent to add then jog on.

The thread is about Religion and prayer. I brought up a relevant and excellent point. Care to counter it or are you just going to throw insults?

Oh the irony

No, you brought up someone's personal tragedy in order to score points on a message board

Quite right t._green - reminds me of the trolls who delight in other people's misfortune. A really sad person.

Or I'm disgusted that in 2016 a child has died because idiots decided to pray to an unproven magical entity rather than seek easily accesible medical treatment that would have almost certainly saved his life.

The mental gymnastics you theists do is astonishing.

The fact that instead of producing a counter argument all you do is label me a troll (I'm certainly not one) shows that you don't have a good argument.

Both of you are justifying the parents by refusing to acknowledge their wrong doing. Disgusting.

When there are preventable child deaths then I believe it is a duty of society to discuss and seek to a way of stopping/reducing the chances of it happening in the future. Neglect is neglect and it shouldn't be shied away from for fear of offending any individual or group.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... dical-help

I suppose I'm a troll for using terror attacks to argue against Islam as well. Religion is responsible for needless fatalities by the boatload every day of every month of every year and I just want it to stop.

When there are preventable child deaths then I believe it is a duty of society to discuss and seek to a way of stopping/reducing the chances of it happening in the future. Neglect is neglect and it shouldn't be shied away from for fear of offending any individual or group.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... dical-help

I totally agree Ceebs.

However, we all lament any child dying if it is at the hands of a religious group like the Mormons or other religious sects but have no qualms about the abortion rate in the UK which in 2014 was over 190,000 per year for this nation alone. This makes a mockery of our concern for children.

Shouldn't we be equally concerned for both?

I don't believe there is a consensus on when a foetus becomes a human being. A fertilised egg is life, there's no denying that, but so are the discrete sperm and ovum. However, allowing, or causing, a fully formed child to suffer or die because of a belief that a simple invocation will cure all is ignorant and I believe those responsible should be charged with neglect/manslaughter. A declaration that the right of life of a foetus, irrespective of the stage of development, should trump that of the mother is a perspective I don't think I could ever share.

My issue with abortion is that the upper limit an abortion can be carried out in the UK is 24 weeks gestation, while the youngest surviving born child was delivered at 21 weeks. Babies born at 24 weeks have a 50% survival rate (those born at 25 weeks have an 80% survival rate, while those born at 23 weeks only have a 15% chance of survival).

I still believe that abortion is a woman's right, and knowing those who have had a termination it is never a decision a woman takes lightly, but I do think, given the advances in modern medicine, that the upper limit of when a termination can be carried out should be reviewed.

I know this is an emotive subject but personally I can't distinguish between a viable birth situation and a fully formed child. The church is often at the forefront in this area seeking alternatives to abortion through counselling and adoption.

However, that perspective aside, I think the majority Christian view is to use all available medical care which can be seen as God given. I don't think you will find many believers in this country relying purely on prayer alone, and even in America such a stance is well outside the mainstream view. The practice of care and medicine has long been found entwined within the Christian community right back in time to hospitals initiated and staffed by monks many hundreds of years ago, It is indeed a fool who disregards such provision, just as a drowning man is fool to rely on prayer alone when a life belt has been thrown to him.

Abortion is a womans right. However we have idiots in America that protest outside abortion clinics, hurling abuse at the mothers and threatening them with violence.

I don't know why T_Green you are using abortion as a counter point but at least you acknowledge the wrong doing of prayer alone as a means of healing.

I think it's quite insulting to the medical proffessionals that work in the field of medicine to label modern medical advancements as God given. They aren't God given. They are given to us by the researchers that invest their lives in medical science.

I'm using abortion as a counterpoint because prior to birth the termination of life is not seen as a crime yet after birth it very much is.

I ask how someone can so emphatically state without doubt that abortion is a woman's right, What of the child's right? does not an almost fully formed child have rights too? How does gender abortion sit with you if you are really concerned with the welfare of children? because that is abortion simply because the child is not the right sex, (generally male) should we not at least speak out for the unborn?

This is what the Bible says in Psalm 139:13-16 (bear in mind the Psalms are poetry set to music)

"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."

There is a sanctity to human life that abortion destroys. For all it's wonders science cannot create life, only destroy it, and if the scriptures hold true, irrespective of God's justice, how many Einsteins, Mozarts, Turners, or Pascals will we lose along the way.

I'm glad you feel the need to be offended on behalf of medical professionals. I know many Christian doctors and nurses that wouldn't worry too much about it, besides if you read my post again you may see I was coming from a specific Christian viewpoint, not a secular one. Besides, it is true that historically, the Church has always cared for the poor both spiritually and practically, and medicine and treatment of ailments has always been a part of this duty of care from the earliest of times. In fact, it's a little known truth that all monasteries and cathedrals had associated hospitals alongside them, and many hospitals today still carry their Saint's name before them—so in a literal sense you could argue that medicine really has historically been God given

I'm using abortion as a counterpoint because prior to birth the termination of life is not seen as a crime yet after birth it very much is.

I ask how someone can so emphatically state without doubt that abortion is a woman's right, What of the child's right? does not an almost fully formed child have rights too? How does gender abortion sit with you if you are really concerned with the welfare of children? because that is abortion simply because the child is not the right sex, (generally male) should we not at least speak out for the unborn?

This is what the Bible says in Psalm 139:13-16 (bear in mind the Psalms are poetry set to music)

"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."

There is a sanctity to human life that abortion destroys. For all it's wonders science cannot create life, only destroy it, and if the scriptures hold true, irrespective of God's justice, how many Einsteins, Mozarts, Turners, or Pascals will we lose along the way.

I'm glad you feel the need to be offended on behalf of medical professionals. I know many Christian doctors and nurses that wouldn't worry too much about it, besides if you read my post again you may see I was coming from a specific Christian viewpoint, not a secular one. Besides, it is true that historically, the Church has always cared for the poor both spiritually and practically, and medicine and treatment of ailments has always been a part of this duty of care from the earliest of times. In fact, it's a little known truth that all monasteries and cathedrals had associated hospitals alongside them, and many hospitals today still carry their Saint's name before them—so in a literal sense you could argue that medicine really has historically been God given

Succinctly put, t._green.

You are right, there is a growing trend for gender based abortions and dare I say it, especially amongst some immigrant groups. I have also seen a baby born at 23 weeks, weighing only 1lb 1oz, grow up to be a perfectly healthy adult.

There is also some considerable controversy over euthanasia and genetically engineered humans.