meetoo wrote:Biggs wrote:meetoo wrote: It's a chant made in respect of banter made by opposition fans to belittle Plymouth, like singing a small town in Wales to Bristol City or Rovers. A small town in Asia in respect of Luton I would suggest is not a racist slur unless a Court deems it so. I follow England far and wide and suffer racial abuse in one form or another on a regular basis but I'm mature enough to understand a lot of it is banter. For the record I'm glad we voted for Brexit and I'm chuffed that Trump is in power in the US
am I a racist no, am I a realist yes. A lot of citizens are fed up to the back teeth of the you can't do this can't do that carp that has taken over the media in all its formats... Just saying.
Well I for one have a lot of questions for that post, but I fear they may derail the thread somewhat.
I'll stick with one. What kind of racist abuse do you suffer that can be deemed 'banter'?
Being referred to as Island Monkeys by the Germans... Roast Beefs by the French... Pommies by the Australians... Sassenach by the Jocks (sorry I mean Scottish). I ask YOU to define the racist comment from the banter. To me they're all banter but I'm sure in some circumstances someone might define them as racist? It's difficult... [REMOVED - SITE ADMIN] is short for Pakistani and Brit is short for British... Is one racist and not the other?
Forest of Dean Green wrote:monkeywrench wrote:jollygreenjohn wrote:Knarf Reprah wrote: Ten pages on an insignificant group of manchildren .......out of a crowd of 10000. Why?
Because racism should always be called out?
Yes quite. Takes courage to do that.
Good morning Mr Holland
I have been passed your email for a response.
It is always very disappointing to learn of any football supporter using anti-discriminatory language – but it remains an issue which needs to be addressed whenever it is feasible and sensible to do so – and therein lies the difficulty for stewards in particular. How to get in amongst densely packed supporters to pick out culprits without endangering their own safety or that of other spectators in the vicinity.
This has to be a judgement call based on each individual circumstance. The steward you spoke to at the end of the game is a very experienced steward having acted at a number of high profile sporting venues and he did, in fact, report the matter in the post-match de-brief where the protocols were discussed in the presence of senior police officers. The police themselves that some chanting such as ‘You’re a town full of Afghans/Taliban’ is not racist – and that they would not necessarily act on such events.
The protocol should be that either such behaviour is witnessed first-hand by a steward or else reported by a spectator to the steward – the incident is then reported via radio to our Stadium Control room where the Safety Officer and any police officers in attendance will make a call as to what action to take. Ideally, if not witnessed by a steward first-hand, then the people alleged to have made such comments/chants will be monitored closely and in the event of a repeat, will then be first warned and potentially ejected from the stadium. If the police become involved then there is the potential for arrest and banning orders.
I will need to speak to our Safety Officer (on Wednesday when he is next in the office) to ascertain if the chanting was reported in to him and whether or not he then took the decision that to try and reach the alleged perpetrators would likely cause more public disorder and endanger his staff and innocent Plymouth supporters in the vicinity, I very much assume this was the case.
In my many years involved in football I have unfortunately witnessed occasions when stewards have ‘waded in’ to try and root our guilty parties only to be met by the group defiance of supporters surrounding the guilty ones – it becomes an ‘us and against them’ scenario and can lead to an ugly confrontation. Unfortunately one such example happened at Home Park a season or two back when several stewards sought to remove some Luton fans who had been chanting about the Argyle goalkeeper – not big not clever – and their efforts to remove the offenders led to a very nasty incident with ‘innocent’ Luton fans becoming involved at what they perceived was the heavy handedness of the stewards at the time. It is not a situation that reflects well upon the stewards or the home club.
It can also lead to do ‘divides’ amongst fans of one club – as was the case with you on Saturday and I am sorry to learn of the intimidation you felt , I assume after you expressed some level of annoyance/disgust at the behaviour of your fellow fans? Again – another example of how difficult it is to police offenders within a confined space.
This email is not an attempt to brush such matters under a carpet but an explanation as to how difficult it can be to try and enforce common decency in what is often a tinder-box situation.
Very unfortunately football is littered with examples of ill-considered and offensive chanting against opposition players/fans – but when 500 or more Liverpool fans sing about the Munich air disaster what can be done? I accept that this was an incident maybe involving 1% of your fans on Saturday – 10 fans – but when they in turn are surrounded by maybe 50-100 fans who would object to stewards intervening and hauling the ‘offenders’ out, when they might not understand why – it can lead to direct and nasty confrontation.
Plymouth police were in attendance on Saturday – spotting, as they call it – and hopefully they will have been aware of the situation and know of the offenders and be able to take action against them at a later time.
I do not think that football clubs, the football authorities or the police have yet come up with a solution to this problem. We are all keen for such issues to be removed from football and hence the drive through educational campaigns such as Kick It Out, but it is a slow process and such anti-discriminatory behaviour is a reflection of society’s issues as a whole and not just that of football.
Senior Operations Manager
Luton Town Football Club 2020 Ltd
Many thanks for contacting Kick It Out and bringing this to our attention.
I have informed the FA who will be investigating this with the clubs as the case involves mass chanting and inaction from the stewards which is a failure to control supporters on a racially aggravated level. The FA investigate matters of mass chanting and we can exist as a conduit between yourselves, the club and the FA.
I have asked the FA to keep me informed on the feedback from the clubs and I will keep you informed.
If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know and we will facilitate however best we can.
esmer wrote: 100% agree as well. Zero tolerance is the only response to racism. Full marks to the OP for standing up and making an issue of it both in the ground and on here.
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