Seven restaurants at Home Park after redevelopment complete

The Council has planning policies which are supposed to restrict out-of-town commercial development. The purpose is to focus investment in the city centre in order to keep it healthy and vibrant. This is in line with central government advice, which the Council are supposed to follow.

Unfortunately the Council don't apply their own policy.

The councillors don't seem to be the brightest bunch of people and don't act very professionally in my opinion. I went to a couple of their meetings and couldn't believe what I was seeing. The quality of debate was shocking. You'd never see that in any other organisation.

So it's not difficult to see how Brent got permission for this development. All he has to do is turn up and charm them. Just because this Council are letting the development go ahead doesn't mean it's good for Argyle or the city as a whole.

Don't_Panic":2g5ilyiz said:

My 2 cents worth are that quite a few individuals are basing their ‘fact it won’t work’ (& this applies to must discussions like these) on the the fact that they just don’t like or would use these types of facilities, completely ignoring the fact that there will be many other individuals who would, the idea that a cup of tea in a plastic cup & a pasty is all you need at a football match. Many people in Plymouth & up & down the country would argue that football is a pretty pointless pastime but hopefully they’ll be grown up enough to accept that people enjoy different things & would not let their dislike of something cloud their judgement. You hear the same arguments for most developments, people who have absolutely no interest in the cinema or eating out already moaning about the bretonside complex based only on that THEY don’t go out much?! Sorry but there’s plenty of people away from the forums, outside people, that will use these facilities.

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I think you may be missing the point, it’s the individual businesses that need convincing that people in enough numbers are going to use them. Otherwise they will not invest & the development doesn’t go ahead. Clearly, judging by the previous scheme they were not convinced. Is there anything different in this scheme that suggests to you that they will invest?

Mork":2ch58tqr said:

Don't_Panic":2ch58tqr said:

My 2 cents worth are that quite a few individuals are basing their ‘fact it won’t work’ (& this applies to must discussions like these) on the the fact that they just don’t like or would use these types of facilities, completely ignoring the fact that there will be many other individuals who would, the idea that a cup of tea in a plastic cup & a pasty is all you need at a football match. Many people in Plymouth & up & down the country would argue that football is a pretty pointless pastime but hopefully they’ll be grown up enough to accept that people enjoy different things & would not let their dislike of something cloud their judgement. You hear the same arguments for most developments, people who have absolutely no interest in the cinema or eating out already moaning about the bretonside complex based only on that THEY don’t go out much?! Sorry but there’s plenty of people away from the forums, outside people, that will use these facilities.

Click to expand...

I think you may be missing the point, it’s the individual businesses that need convincing that people in enough numbers are going to use them. Otherwise they will not invest & the development doesn’t go ahead. Clearly, judging by the previous scheme they were not convinced. Is there anything different in this scheme that suggests to you that they will invest?

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That’s exactly right, of course.

It’s a strange one for me, because the bit that is most unlikely to go ahead, is the Western Gateway site, and that is probably the most positive part of the whole thing. Unlike the horrible office block carbuncle planned for the HHP site.

Mork":3kdtnja8 said:

Don't_Panic":3kdtnja8 said:

My 2 cents worth are that quite a few individuals are basing their ‘fact it won’t work’ (& this applies to must discussions like these) on the the fact that they just don’t like or would use these types of facilities, completely ignoring the fact that there will be many other individuals who would, the idea that a cup of tea in a plastic cup & a pasty is all you need at a football match. Many people in Plymouth & up & down the country would argue that football is a pretty pointless pastime but hopefully they’ll be grown up enough to accept that people enjoy different things & would not let their dislike of something cloud their judgement. You hear the same arguments for most developments, people who have absolutely no interest in the cinema or eating out already moaning about the bretonside complex based only on that THEY don’t go out much?! Sorry but there’s plenty of people away from the forums, outside people, that will use these facilities.

Click to expand...

I think you may be missing the point, it’s the individual businesses that need convincing that people in enough numbers are going to use them. Otherwise they will not invest & the development doesn’t go ahead. Clearly, judging by the previous scheme they were not convinced. Is there anything different in this scheme that suggests to you that they will invest?

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Major difference is there isn’t a cinema and no shops.

It was the competition from Bretonside for the cinema that killed off HHP1, so this is why HHP2 is a smaller development.

HC Green":3hxqyc1u said:

Mork":3hxqyc1u said:

Don't_Panic":3hxqyc1u said:

My 2 cents worth are that quite a few individuals are basing their ‘fact it won’t work’ (& this applies to must discussions like these) on the the fact that they just don’t like or would use these types of facilities, completely ignoring the fact that there will be many other individuals who would, the idea that a cup of tea in a plastic cup & a pasty is all you need at a football match. Many people in Plymouth & up & down the country would argue that football is a pretty pointless pastime but hopefully they’ll be grown up enough to accept that people enjoy different things & would not let their dislike of something cloud their judgement. You hear the same arguments for most developments, people who have absolutely no interest in the cinema or eating out already moaning about the bretonside complex based only on that THEY don’t go out much?! Sorry but there’s plenty of people away from the forums, outside people, that will use these facilities.

Click to expand...

I think you may be missing the point, it’s the individual businesses that need convincing that people in enough numbers are going to use them. Otherwise they will not invest & the development doesn’t go ahead. Clearly, judging by the previous scheme they were not convinced. Is there anything different in this scheme that suggests to you that they will invest?

Click to expand...

Major difference is there isn’t a cinema and no shops.

It was the competition from Bretonside for the cinema that killed off HHP1, so this is why HHP2 is a smaller development.

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But it isn’t smaller at all.

HHPmk1 had retail units built into the proposed new stand along with a hotel and cinema. This new plan encompasses the Western Gateway area as well. If anything, this plan with the office block and gym etc is probably bigger.

Meanwhile 3000 of us will be heading towards The Valley.

Exciting times eh?

:scarf:

What's not to like? Football, good. Burgers, good. Pasties, GOOD!

Pretty sure there’s already a load of empty restaurants in town.

I can picture this as being a bit like the cluster of outlets at somewhere like Gordano Services except I don’t see that there is the necessary footfall. That would suggest that the outlets would have to pull in their customers on their own merits more along the lines of the McDs at Crownhill and Marsh Mills, KFCs etc. But it seems to me that all of that kind of place is shifting across to more drive-through custom these days and do I don’t see Hone Park being an attractive location for them without that facility.

It’s interesting to try to make a list of 7 types of outlet that could coexist assuming quite small footprint for each one. It could be something like:

Costa/Starbucks/other coffee chain
Subway
McDs/Burger King etc
KFC
Harry Ramsdens
Pasties
Pizza Hut

I do like the idea of more independent/artisan places. I think such places are becoming increasingly popular. A ‘farm shop’ type retail outlet selling local produce would be interesting. But I don’t think this kind of place would have the finances to buy into the scheme.

The worry is that the build is dependent on finding tenants to provide the money to allow it to go ahead so it could easily get stuck at this stage. But I guess the key part for argyle is funded by Simon Hallett and so is not affected by this?

The Doctor":zoxmhiny said:

I can picture this as being a bit like the cluster of outlets at somewhere like Gordano Services except I don’t see that there is the necessary footfall. That would suggest that the outlets would have to pull in their customers on their own merits more along the lines of the McDs at Crownhill and Marsh Mills, KFCs etc. But it seems to me that all of that kind of place is shifting across to more drive-through custom these days and do I don’t see Hone Park being an attractive location for them without that facility.

It’s interesting to try to make a list of 7 types of outlet that could coexist assuming quite small footprint for each one. It could be something like:

Costa/Starbucks/other coffee chain
Subway
McDs/Burger King etc
KFC
Harry Ramsdens
Pasties
Pizza Hut

I do like the idea of more independent/artisan places. I think such places are becoming increasingly popular. A ‘farm shop’ type retail outlet selling local produce would be interesting. But I don’t think this kind of place would have the finances to buy into the scheme.

The worry is that the build is dependent on finding tenants to provide the money to allow it to go ahead so it could easily get stuck at this stage. But I guess the key part for argyle is funded by Simon Hallett and so is not affected by this?

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The outlets underneath the hotel could depend on what the hotel company is as a number have sister companies like Premier Inns and Brewers Fayre so you often see the two on the same site.

Monkey Nuts":baiou4er said:

Pretty sure there’s already a load of empty restaurants in town.

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You have to pay to park in the car parks in the evening, get through the one way roads and traffic lights too.

I'm stuck in the middle of views for this. The Grandstand refurb is greatly needed and really is all I care about. Anything that drags it into anywhere near the 21st Century is an improvement.

The rest of it ?

The Ice Rink is I think a must do because of the Pavillions and greater plan for Plymouth. Not something I'm ever going to use but a definite improvement on the current availability and makes sense to have it in a Central 'Sporting Area'. Hopefully it gets done and provides a popular and successful facility for those that want to use it.

The Office Blocks, not entirely necessary but could prove a good location for any Sports based tenant. No need for a gym there unless it's one of those essy access non subscription type places.

The Hotel will only get built if a serious operator gets involved and develops the whole site to their Hotel / Pub formula. That would probably involve the site being sold on by the current owners. Planning adjustments being sought etc.

The arguments against anything up there are many and seem to swing from a loss of Parkland to just an obvious basic dislike of personalties involved in the Club.

As I see it, the Hotel bit would be built on an already commercially used Site. The Ice Rink bit on a non income generating lump of out of date tarmac that doesnt belong to the Club anyway, and hasn't for some time.

It's not the destruction of Central Park, its not the end of the world, its not 100% required but most developments never are. If it ever gets built, it'll certainly change the dynamics of the area and will require a bit of a rethink of how you plan your matchday. It's not going to propel Argyle into the big money leagues, it's not going to create a massive upturn in attendances, it is what it is - a refurbished Grandstand and a load of buildings either side of the Life Centre.

I for one cant think of 7 Resturant / Take away chains that could operate on a 7 Day basis with the footfall there, unless the Ice Rink proves hugely popular. My main concern would be the litter that accompanies these places.

And would dog walkers be able to take their dogs into these places during the day?

IJN":1j1drypp said:

Meanwhile 3000 of us will be heading towards The Valley.

Exciting times eh?

:scarf:

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What’s that got to do with this thread??

pedro91":32zirojc said:

And would dog walkers be able to take their dogs into these places during the day?

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Barry set up a dog minders business for dinners bound to be a money spinner woof woof.