Coaching | PASOTI
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Coaching

Mar 14, 2009
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I understand coaching can’t make the players quicker like Wottoon, Canavan or Sawyer.

However, people mention how bad our defence was last season. I agree. However, when you look at how we defended like standing off opposition players l do believe part of the problem was how some of these players were coached to defend.

I’m not saying overnight these players will become good players. Yet who is to say these players can’t become better players over a period of time because of a different style of coaching.

I’m not for one minute thinking the defensive players won’t make mistakes. However, l find it strange how we write players off without the chance to see if a different style of coaching can improve them. It might not turn them into works beaters but they maybe one or two of them might surprise us and end up being good enough for a league 2 campaign.
 
MGM you are so spot on here. I can’t count the number of posts on Pasoti which have angered me because fans assume that all players, but particularly young ones, are somehow the finished article. Elsewhere someone has posted how they can’t believe the change in Lolo and Randell. I can’t believe that Tafari Moore can be a promising Arsenal youngster one year, then suddenly rubbish (according to some) once he joins us, probably playing in the wrong position last year, and perhaps poorly coached. Last week he looked a revelation at Torquay.

I’m not even sure I share your point that coaching can’t make a player quicker. In the late 60s/early 70s the two outstanding centre backs were Bobby Moore and Jack Charlton. Across 50 metres I bet these would be amongst the slowest players in their respective teams. However their anticipation and reading of the game made them two of England’s best ever defenders. I can remember Moore putting much of this down to the exceptional coaching he received from Ron Greenwood, before which he was struggling to become even an average player.
 

memory man

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mervyn":36hqwlnc said:
MGM you are so spot on here. I can’t count the number of posts on Pasoti which have angered me because fans assume that all players, but particularly young ones, are somehow the finished article. Elsewhere someone has posted how they can’t believe the change in Lolo and Randell. I can’t believe that Tafari Moore can be a promising Arsenal youngster one year, then suddenly rubbish (according to some) once he joins us, probably playing in the wrong position last year, and perhaps poorly coached. Last week he looked a revelation at Torquay.

I’m not even sure I share your point that coaching can’t make a player quicker. In the late 60s/early 70s the two outstanding centre backs were Bobby Moore and Jack Charlton. Across 50 metres I bet these would be amongst the slowest players in their respective teams. However their anticipation and reading of the game made them two of England’s best ever defenders. I can remember Moore putting much of this down to the exceptional coaching he received from Ron Greenwood, before which he was struggling to become even an average player.
Moore himself also paid tribute to the man who preceded him in the 6 shirt at West Ham - Malcolm Allison.
 
May 16, 2016
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It'll certainly be interesting. Maybe it's a case of some Players at this level aren't as adaptable as ones further up the Pyramid and can only shine in a fairly limited variety of systems. Hopefully we'll get to see improved performances from some. If RL can bring out the best in some of last Seasons 'rejects' it'll not help Adams case for the defence of his Coaching and recruitment skills.
 
Jan 4, 2005
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memory man":1sf0332e said:
mervyn":1sf0332e said:
MGM you are so spot on here. I can’t count the number of posts on Pasoti which have angered me because fans assume that all players, but particularly young ones, are somehow the finished article. Elsewhere someone has posted how they can’t believe the change in Lolo and Randell. I can’t believe that Tafari Moore can be a promising Arsenal youngster one year, then suddenly rubbish (according to some) once he joins us, probably playing in the wrong position last year, and perhaps poorly coached. Last week he looked a revelation at Torquay.

I’m not even sure I share your point that coaching can’t make a player quicker. In the late 60s/early 70s the two outstanding centre backs were Bobby Moore and Jack Charlton. Across 50 metres I bet these would be amongst the slowest players in their respective teams. However their anticipation and reading of the game made them two of England’s best ever defenders. I can remember Moore putting much of this down to the exceptional coaching he received from Ron Greenwood, before which he was struggling to become even an average player.
Moore himself also paid tribute to the man who preceded him in the 6 shirt at West Ham - Malcolm Allison.

And Malcolm Allison did it all on one lung and smoked, if what I read is correct. Quite a man really and a role model in some respects to the West Ham young players, who came up from apprentices.
 

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I’ve a feeling we’ll see a much improved Tafari Moore this season..
 

Koala Green

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mervyn":3drxmzcu said:
MGM you are so spot on here. I can’t count the number of posts on Pasoti which have angered me because fans assume that all players, but particularly young ones, are somehow the finished article. Elsewhere someone has posted how they can’t believe the change in Lolo and Randell. I can’t believe that Tafari Moore can be a promising Arsenal youngster one year, then suddenly rubbish (according to some) once he joins us, probably playing in the wrong position last year, and perhaps poorly coached. Last week he looked a revelation at Torquay.

I’m not even sure I share your point that coaching can’t make a player quicker. In the late 60s/early 70s the two outstanding centre backs were Bobby Moore and Jack Charlton. Across 50 metres I bet these would be amongst the slowest players in their respective teams. However their anticipation and reading of the game made them two of England’s best ever defenders. I can remember Moore putting much of this down to the exceptional coaching he received from Ron Greenwood, before which he was struggling to become even an average player.


I agree, I think there is so much focus and spotlight on young players and the expectation they are perfect. I remember a young Ronaldo being a ball hogging, show off who was brilliant one minute then infuriating the next and didn't mature until his early 20s. A young Gerrard and Lampard needed work, Kane was a Championship player in his early days. Every player needs a good couple of seasons under the belt to improve their skills and game awareness.

There are loads of examples of how coaching improves players e.g Sterling and other city players have said how Guardiola talked about their body shape when they receive the ball and how changing that gives them the extra edge.

Obviously time will tell how well Lowe coaches the team but l assume the strikers will be getting better coaching as he and Schuey were attacking players. If we are going to play a more offensive, pressing game then I think the defenders will naturally flourish as more will be expected of them in possession and off the ball. This means that instead playing a passive, tight defensive role (which they did under Adams) , they will be involved in the game more, getting more touches and should be better for it.

What I am looking forward to is seeing our team actually playing more with the ball, expressing themselves instead of being rigid tactically. I am sure it will lead to quite a few mistakes but the risk/reward approach should give more positive outcomes than negative. One positive to this is the standard of League 2 strikers is not as good as League one which means hopefully those mistakes will not be as ruthlessly punished.
 
Sep 20, 2005
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We haven't seen much of it yet, but Wootton came through at Man United, so there must be something in there. I wonder if the north west link up with the new coaching team will have an effect as well. Will be interesting to see how he gets on.
 
Sep 6, 2006
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JannerinCardiff":2dnla659 said:
I’ve a feeling we’ll see a much improved Tafari Moore this season..

Lets hope so. He cant get any worse. I dont see a professional career for him.
 
Apr 15, 2004
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Something that has always stuck in my mind is when Jack Charlton said when talking about the art of defending – “There’s no such thing as a good young defender”.

Obviously in typical Jack style he’s overstating things but the point he was making is that defending has to be learned and experience and coaching makes a massive difference – and in the same interview he made the point (fairly obvious if you think about it) that defending is not about individuals, it has to be co-ordinated and everyone needs to know not just their own job but each others. So a young defender not coached properly and thrown into a disorganised defensive unit is going to look dodgy at best no matter how potentially talented they are. I offer as evidence Tony Adams and Lee Dixon ……. two players totally dismissed by even the most ardent Arsenal fans in their early days as donkeys and considered a joke by other fans who would make ‘Eeyore’ sounds.
 

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Ave_IT":1a5b1xtd said:
Something that has always stuck in my mind is when Jack Charlton said when talking about the art of defending – “There’s no such thing as a good young defender”.

Obviously in typical Jack style he’s overstating things but the point he was making is that defending has to be learned and experience and coaching makes a massive difference – and in the same interview he made the point (fairly obvious if you think about it) that defending is not about individuals, it has to be co-ordinated and everyone needs to know not just their own job but each others. So a young defender not coached properly and thrown into a disorganised defensive unit is going to look dodgy at best no matter how potentially talented they are. I offer as evidence Tony Adams and Lee Dixon ……. two players totally dismissed by even the most ardent Arsenal fans in their early days as donkeys and considered a joke by other fans who would make ‘Eeyore’ sounds.

I agree with the premise Ave_IT and wouldn' be at all surprised to see the likes of Moore and ASB excelling as the season progresses played in a more natural wing-back role. But I'm not sure the 'eeyore' comparison is quite right - that came courtesy of the tabloid press' reaction to Marco van Basten tearing Adams apart in Euro 88. So, though young, he was very much an established pro and international player by then - rival fans just exploited the handle for effect.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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JannerinCardiff":v76aqqzn said:
I’ve a feeling we’ll see a much improved Tafari Moore this season..

Couldn't get much worse to be fair :coat: