Persistent Standing Policy

Andy S · Aug 23, 2019

Keyham Pilgrim":y63klbnj said:
You missed my point totally that the club has to be seen to be doing something. I did say rightly or wrongly they have chosen this area so I have not accused anyone in this area of doing anything. If you read all this thread then other posters have mentioned getting solicitors involved which I think is ridiculous.

I think the club could have handled this differently but not sure what the best way is. Argyle have clearly been instructed by some authority to make more effort to get people to sit. Everyone who stands who has written on this thread seem to say they don't care what the rules are, they are going to stand so what is the club meant to do because ignoring it is not the solution.

Ain't that the truth!

One of them, I can't be bothered to go back and look, stated quite categorically that it was 2.5% of the crowd that stood. Using that, 97.5% of the crowd abide by the rules.

Isn't it always the case that it's a very tiny minority who don't give a rat's ar5e about the majority?

Jasa · Aug 23, 2019

KFA":39onel44 said:
Jasa. I appreciate you are directly affected by this situation and therefore seem stressed out by it but take a breath!

These 32 seats contain how many season ticket holders? 12/15?

Of those a portion seem to have “ persistently stood” and not been willing to compromise or accept the clubs/ stewards requests/ instructions over an extended period of time. So I’m guessing we are into low single figures? If so would it not be reasonable for them to accept relocation to Demport?

If I recall there were reports of fisticuffs and verbal violence last season and formal complaints to the club etc. I do not recall similar for the Demport do you?

This no doubt raised the profile of Block14 with the authorities and they would have required the club to resolve matters. A year later ( with no progress) it is not surprising that the club is having to demonstrate that it is doing something tangible.

Don’t suppose for one minute the club actually wants to ban anyone if it can avoid it so by closing a small area rather than hitting specific individuals it can show the authorities it is doing something whilst minimising impact on fans.

That does mean the non offending season ticket holders are caught up in the ( hopefully) one match disruption but I am sure with the quality of CCTV in the stadium that Jon Backs team can ID “ saints and sinners “.

Whilst I think the club could have managed this better by communicating earlier with the affected dozen season ticket holders is there not an argument that the small group of persistently standing season ticket holders have actually brought this on themselves and dumped it on the rest of the season ticket holders in those rows?

Surely the “suspending” of the season ticket does not mean a ban nor financial loss to anyone as the affected season ticket holders will simply need to sit elsewhere for a game?

To answer,

Why would I say 32 if there were 12/15?
You've guessed completely incorrectly.
There were 0 amounts of fisticuffs involved. Do you honestly believe that any violence would allow a person to stay in the ground? Again, you're speculating.
Minimising impact on fans? You're not involved. A previous question, how would you feel if you sat down and had your season ticket suspended. The club have not actually said what this means other than arrange a meeting with Jon Back. No contact details were given and no response has been given to an attempted meeting time.
CCTV could identify, I'm certain of that. Why hasn't this happened then?
So I commit a crime, you can't come either. How would you feel? Who's to say we're even linked? We talk as they're near to us, but I have no other contact outside Home Park. No different to most season ticket holders I'd imagine.
As earlier, no further information has been given on the suspension. This is not only affecting people's direct season ticket money, it's affecting opportunities to work overtime and pick up and extra shift. I know a couple have other arrangements that they weren't able to attend with their family, that they may now be able to attend. When are they likely to know if they need to make other arrangements?

If you're interested, in the back 7 rows of Block 14, there are 196 seats. Only 1 seat is available for Season Ticket membership.

Lundan Cabbie · Aug 23, 2019

Superguy":1at3n6vp said:
I have a season ticket in the back row. Not Block 3 or 14.

I have always stood when I felt the need.

I block no-ones view.

For the next few games I will be wearing a body camera to film any conversation I have with a steward who happens to ask me to sit down.

I will also be getting my friends to film any incident on their phones.

I will be polite and not looking for trouble.

However the footage will be posted all over social media for all to see the inconsistency and ridiculousness of Argyle’s handling of this policy.

John Black - you are a joke.

And technically the copyright of that footage would belong to the club and the EFL and therefore you could have your season ticket revoked for breach of entry terms and conditions should you publish any video on social media.

They get you all ways.

Quizmike · Aug 23, 2019

The club website tells us that his email is jon.back@pafc.co uk

Trev501 · Aug 23, 2019

Am I missing something here; as far as I can see no-one is banned from attending, just being re-seated until presumably this blows over. Some people here need to get a life and think about whats best for the club rather than themselves.

KFA · Aug 23, 2019

Trev501":2vl1pwo6 said:
Am I missing something here; as far as I can see no-one is banned from attending, just being re-seated until presumably this blows over. Some people here need to get a life and think about whats best for the club rather than themselves.

Don’t think you’re missing anything at all and your summary is quite correct.

I appreciate for posters like Jasa the annoyance and frustration it’s caused but ( whilst agreeing the club could/ should have communicated better) do think that any non offending season ticket holders affected should be aiming their anger at the small number of “ persistent standing” season ticket holders who for over a year have refused to compromise or meet the clubs/ stewards requests.

See on Twitter that one affected person has said he is all sorted and just has to sit in a different seat for one game.

Dazzy3000 · Aug 23, 2019

I can’t stand this thread

Action Jackson · Aug 23, 2019

Just watching the Villa - Everton game with a nice glass of Red and i'm DISGUSTED to see all of the Holte End standing... plus the camera panned to the Away End and wait for this..... every single Everton fan was also standing.

Disgusting scenes that have no place in football.

Quintrell Green · Aug 23, 2019

Action Jackson":w2wdvaga said:
Just watching the Villa - Everton game with a nice glass of Red and i'm DISGUSTED to see all of the Holte End standing... plus the camera panned to the Away End and wait for this..... every single Everton fan was also standing.

Disgusting scenes that have no place in football.

You are correct. I am thinking sauce / goose / gander on this issue, if you get my drift. It is enough to make you hiss rather than whistle regarding the application of the all seating legislation.

jimsing · Aug 23, 2019

Action Jackson":3gcq359s said:
gaspargomez":3gcq359s said:

Action Jackson":3gcq359s said:

You really do spout absolute rubbish.

Click to expand...

The other "rubbish" thing I mentioned was the problem of people standing up in front of kids and OAPS and blocking their view.

You didn't have an answer for that.

Presumably you think that's OK, these people should have to move to accommodate you ?

Click to expand...

Roughly 2.5% of the ground stand, we literally never sell out and everyone knows where the people that stand go. Just move somewhere else.

No one is saying go and stand in front of the disabled section or deliberately block John Smith the OAP's view. It's about using common sense, something you seem to be severely lacking.

Just like i respect people that want to sit down, people should also respect people that want to stand.

But people are NOT ALLOWED to stand at Home Park, so just show respect to those that abide by the rules dear boy.

If/when safe standing is allowed here then I assume that you will all move to this area and the problem will be resolved.

In fact why don't you all move to the Devonport End and join those that stand up there? You won't be out of place there, as you are in the Lyndhurst, and there will be no complaints about blocking views.

Putting in safe standing will take many thousand of pounds to do, and I cannot see that this will be done in the near future, especially after spending millions on the grandstand, and how long did that take to get off the ground?

Where will the money come from to replace the seats?. Better start saving up now if you want to provide the money to be able to stand at Home Park.

Kentishgreen · Aug 23, 2019

Not to mention that the Premiership plays by it’s own rules and only does something when SKY tells it to

Quizmike · Aug 23, 2019

Even then, sometimes even the big clubs have to act if the authorities have a word - in this case Greater Manchester Police

Here's Man U sending an email to Liverpool fans warning them they can't persistently stand

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/f ... l-15864350

Andy S · Aug 23, 2019

It’s not for standing, but Rangers have been ORDERED by UEFA to close 3,000 seats for their forthcoming cup game. The reason is for “racist chanting”...which woul also bugger up the racist goons that we still have at Home Park.

If it can be done for Rangers then a closure at Argyle would be a walk in the park.

demportdave · Aug 23, 2019

PMPilgrim":2apn33z8 said:
Quintrell_Green":2apn33z8 said:

Action Jackson":2apn33z8 said:

Just watching the Villa - Everton game with a nice glass of Red and i'm DISGUSTED to see all of the Holte End standing... plus the camera panned to the Away End and wait for this..... every single Everton fan was also standing.

Disgusting scenes that have no place in football.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I am thinking sauce / goose / gander on this issue, if you get my drift. It is enough to make you hiss rather than whistle regarding the application of the all seating legislation.

Click to expand...

I give up. The argument is clearly too subtle for you.

One more try.

Neither of those two clubs are trying to open a new stand for which they need a safety certificate.

A certificate will not be given if we don’t enforce the rules in the bits of the ground we already have.

Pure speculation / PASOTI “fact”.

If standing at Home Park was actually going to stop us getting a safety certificate for the Grandstand they would have to stop the many who constantly stand in the Devonport End every game and the away fans in the Barn Park End; 20 or 30 people in the Lyndhurst are inconsequential.

At Liverpool - the club so deeply affected by the tragedy at Hillsborough which precipitated the all-seater legislation in Parliament - fans have been standing en masse on the Kop for years and continue to do so, as do the visiting fans at the Anfield Road end, but it didn’t prevent them getting a safety certificate for their new main stand a couple of years ago. Man City once again had thousands of Tottenham fans standing on all 3 levels last week and the Premier League said nothing about it. The same thing happens at Stamford Bridge and many other grounds week after week. It has tacitly become accepted because it has become recognised that they can’t stop it.

I believe the problem at HP is the people temporarily re-located from the Grandstand who aren’t used to having their view constantly obstructed by people standing and who have formally complained to the club. I have some sympathy for them but it has put the club in an awkward position and they feel that they have to act. We really need to get the Mayflower / Grandstand seats open asap to free up seats in the Lyndhurst.

Standing in seated areas will always be a contentious issue until the authorities take the pragmatic view and repeal the law to allow standing.

There is an old legal maxim, “Hard cases make bad Law” and there is no better example of this than the well-intentioned but ultimately flawed legislation that came from that tragic afternoon in Sheffield.

Biggs · Aug 24, 2019

I would imagine any safety officer would be looking at the Lyndhurst as the most direct and only available equivalent to the Grandstand, rather than a home ‘end’ or away ‘end’.

Argyle are working so hard to get this grandstand open in time, that they really don’t want even 1% chance of unwanted delays. For anyone doubting the likelihood of safety issues delaying the opening of a new facility... Spurs had to wait months for all their certificates to be signed off (not all standing related issues, I’m aware). It doesn’t seem to be that much of a coincidence they were issuing exactly the same sort of statements that Argyle are now.

Persistent Standing Policy

Andy S

Administrator

Jasa

Lundan Cabbie

Quizmike

Trev501

KFA

Dazzy3000

Action Jackson

Quintrell Green

jimsing

Kentishgreen

Quizmike

Andy S

Administrator

demportdave

Biggs

Administrator