Advice for the defence | PASOTI
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Advice for the defence

Aug 8, 2013
705
390
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?
 
Jan 17, 2017
3,969
388
35
Bovey Tracey
Gary S":1wsknst5 said:
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?

In the fans forum it was confirmed we have a defensive coach.

Key issue is our back line is made up of young loanees who are error prone.
 
May 26, 2015
890
520
Jack Charlton had the best advice for defenders with comments like " I don't like centre halves who can play football" and to the late, great, Bobby Moore, before his beauty pass to Sir Geoff Hurst, in the final minute of 66, for the fourth goal "I would have kicked it into the stands"
 
May 27, 2019
2,995
308
EXETER/OWLERTON
Willis88":309fsdiq said:
Gary S":309fsdiq said:
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?

In the fans forum it was confirmed we have a defensive coach.

Key issue is our back line is made up of young loanees who are error prone.

Who is this defensive coach then? End of term report should read, must do better.
 

cheshiregreen

✅ Evergreen
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Feb 17, 2004
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cheshire
Devongreenowl":eab8k79c said:
Willis88":eab8k79c said:
Gary S":eab8k79c said:
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?

In the fans forum it was confirmed we have a defensive coach.

Key issue is our back line is made up of young loanees who are error prone.

Who is this defensive coach then? End of term report should read, must do better.

Hey DGO,

What's latest on Darren Moore's health?

Looking forward to see Argyle at Hillsborough next season. ;)
 
Apr 1, 2009
4,307
2,501
Gary S":28zgtltb said:
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?


This was queried at the most recent fans forum. Dewsnip explained that one member of the coaching staff worked with the attack, one with the midfield, and one with the defence. He didn't say who specifically did what, but made it clear that he felt all bases were covered.

As to the other options, has Gary Sawyer got any proven credentials in coaching, or is he suggested as an experienced player already in the dressing room? As to Paul Wotton, it seems unlikely that we would re-employ a coach who was removed a mere two years ago. If the club did decide to employ a defensive coach, I hope they'd seek the best available within budget rather than restrict themselves to long standing ex- (or soon to be ex-) players.

Finally, it's always easier for a pundit to point out such deficiencies than to rectify them.
 
May 27, 2019
2,995
308
EXETER/OWLERTON
cheshiregreen":a9e1ok0j said:
Devongreenowl":a9e1ok0j said:
Willis88":a9e1ok0j said:
Gary S":a9e1ok0j said:
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?

In the fans forum it was confirmed we have a defensive coach.

Key issue is our back line is made up of young loanees who are error prone.

Who is this defensive coach then? End of term report should read, must do better.

Hey DGO,

What's latest on Darren Moore's health?

Looking forward to see Argyle at Hillsborough next season. ;)

I’m afraid he’s got pneumonia Cheshire. Looks like he might have come back to work too quickly after Covid, but who knows. Yes, sadly you will be seeing Argyle at Hillsborough next season, unless some of the gloom merchants on here see their worst fears come true and Argyle are relegated. :facepalm:
 
Aug 8, 2013
705
390
xmastree":2w9kmduk said:
Gary S":2w9kmduk said:
Though not the greatest centre back ever to play in green, I did
find Guy Branston's comments regarding the defence yesterday very interesting,
and it set me wondering who Argyle have who can impart such advice.

Lowe was a forward and Schumacher and Nancekivell were midfielders in their playing days,
so you have to wonder if they are capable of offering specialized coaching to the
defence. Are the defence left to work things out for themselves ?

I seem to remember that in previous promotion seasons we had a specialist defence coach;
or is that my imagination playing tricks with me ?


This was queried at the most recent fans forum. Dewsnip explained that one member of the coaching staff worked with the attack, one with the midfield, and one with the defence. He didn't say who specifically did what, but made it clear that he felt all bases were covered.

As to the other options, has Gary Sawyer got any proven credentials in coaching, or is he suggested as an experienced player already in the dressing room? As to Paul Wotton, it seems unlikely that we would re-employ a coach who was removed a mere two years ago. If the club did decide to employ a defensive coach, I hope they'd seek the best available within budget rather than restrict themselves to long standing ex- (or soon to be ex-) players.

Finally, it's always easier for a pundit to point out such deficiencies than to rectify them.

Interesting. As the official site only names three members of coaching staff apart from Rhys Wilmot, it would suggest that either Schumacher or Nancekivell is working with the defence.

As you say, it's easy for a pundit to point out deficiencies, but deficiencies there certainly are, and I would hope that
a review of the coaching set-up will be considered.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Guest
Ryan came into Argyle with the philosophy if a team scores 2 we score 3. With 3 CBs and wing backs in League 2 that worked to a degree. But after this season it's become apparent, at least to many of us, that this philosophy and the 3-5-2 formation with the players we have available, is not effective.

As well as what we can all see with our eyes in matches, the numbers don't lie. We are 15th in the table for goals scored, and 20th for goals against. We are a long way from the stated aim with a goal difference of -16.

Many of us agreed that a back 4 gave us more solidity and balance through the team. Injuries and suspensions have maybe disrupted that for now. But personally speaking, on the evidence of this year I don't want us to blindly persist with a back 3, the experiments failed. Anyone who ever gets to the top of any profession shares at least one common trait, and that is the ability to learn from mistakes and try something else. Thomas Edison did that 1000 times until he came up with the perfect light bulb. Einstein famously said 'A problem cannot be solved with the same kind of thinking that created it'

What id like to see next season from Ryan and his team, is that they are capable to changing direction and being more flexible in their problem solving, on and off the pitch.

I was a little concerned with Neil Dewsnips demeanor and the vague answer he gave in the Fans Forum regarding defensive coaching. We don't have a specialist defensive coach but Neil was almost taken back by the question, and I find that a bit concerning from someone who has coached at England U21 level. It's clear to everyone, with coaching badges or not, that a lot of work needs to be done defensively and it would have been expected for Neil to acknowledge that.

All that said, looking up the table, given the huge inconsistencies and the points given away, we are 12 points from the top 6. If we just cut out the obvious individual errors and sharpen up our decision making, even with a less than perfect defensive system, we would be up there. Next season will be very interesting and will be the real measure of our progress I feel.
 

mutley marvel

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Feb 13, 2021
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I felt Neil Dewsnip was quite aloof on the Fans Forum when asked about the defence & coaching- it felt like how dare you question the coaching methods adopted in respect of the defence

My question would be if they sign experienced defenders would they still use the methods adopted this season (will we see the same results next season) or will they have a total rethink & look for a experienced defensive coach

That to me is the million dollar question as i dont think we want a repeat of defensive howlers next season :roll:
 

Cobi Budge

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Apr 8, 2011
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argyleforever":wmfuxpjd said:
Be good to see Wotton back taking that roll

Last time he had that role we were relegated from L1 largely due to our completely inept defence.
 

Tugboat

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Our 3-5-2 has been 3-1-4-2 for 90% of the season due to poor defensive qualities and frailties at wingback.

The holding midfielder has to be either a visionary playmaker from the back or scarp it altogether and get another 1 in between the 2 man midfield and strikers.

Having Fornah ‘screening’ the back 4 for every match is a man wasted in my opinion. Get better CB’s and WB’s and we wouldn’t need that screen for a lot of the season.

The idea is to have the wingbacks pushing up and overloading the wide areas to go either 5 in midfield or 4 up top in attack.

I’d we are going to play this way next season then we clearly need a half dozen new signings.

Fwiw I’d like to keep Aimson and woods.

Edwards needs replacing at RWB. Not because he’s poor but I think he can have more influence elsewhere. Grant should be CM so a new LWB as cover/options with Cooper. A new CM allowing Reeves to leave and Macleod won’t get a new deal.

Mayor or Cooper behind the front 2 would be nice providing the wingbacks are adequate to get up in support and back in defence.

Oh and possibly a new GK because I’m sure we will have a few offers for Mr Cooper in the summer.

Sounds easy doesn’t it.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Guest
Hull 4-2-3-1

Peterborough 4-2-3-1

Sunderland 4-2-3-1

Lincoln 4-2-3-1

Blackpool 4-4-2

Oxford 4-3-3

My own perception of Ryan's philosophy is, that he's taken a system evolved brilliantly at his boyhood club by a brilliant manager with every resource at his disposal, and thought he could replicate it at league 1/2 level. On paper, everything looks a great idea. This season has shown the limitations.

Out of necessity, due to poor form and lack of availability, he went to a back 4 and there was an immediate difference. Even Derek Adams, out of desperation I suspect, went from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 deploying Carey, Ladapo and Lameiras at the front to great effect. I believe this was just stumbled on not planned, because up until then he had hardly played Lameiras, much to the fans dismay.

If I were a relatively new manager in football or anything else, first thing I would do is learn from the managers that have done or are doing what I want to achieve. I hope Ryan is studying the top 6 and learning fast. If he doesn't he might end up stuck at this level, as many have. The best managers, in my own professional experience, are the ones who don't think they have all the answers and defer to people who do. And they are flexible.