Camara’s form

philevs · Apr 22, 2021

To me Panutche Camara’s form has dropped off tremendously in the last 8-10 games.
He seems to be playing negatively with lots of sideways and backwards passing instead of setting off on his surging runs, and his defending is not what it was as he seems to have lost that ability to nick the ball in tackles, his running seems to have dropped a level, even his shooting has been poor and he poses very little threat when attacking.
Not the only one whose form has dipped a lot.
What has happened, anyone any ideas?

Paranoid Android · Apr 22, 2021

My perception is it's maybe due to our defensive form, he has lost the confidence to take risks and make interceptions and go on the offensive. Maybe his form (and others) is part of a collective nervousness?

oldage · Apr 22, 2021

Could be he has been told to be less adventurous and concentrate on helping the defence? Isn't working though!

greenpilled · Apr 22, 2021

He's a young guy, played 40 odd games this season, and this is the highest level he's ever played at. It could be fatigue.

There's also the possibility that other managers have had time to identify his strengths and take steps to neutralise them. He seems particularly adept at a) winning possession high up the pitch and b) those long-striding runs with the ball, breaking into the space behind the opposition midfield. In recent weeks he maybe hasn't been given the opportunities to do so as much

philevs · Apr 22, 2021

To me he looks short of confidence, maybe not surprising given the amount of criticism the players have received from the manager.

EyeOpener · Apr 22, 2021

Camara is a different player to the one that we first saw and that can only be down to the management and coaching team. I reckon what attracted Lowe to him and the way he naturally plays has been coached out of him. Its called developing his game :eh:

Lets not also forget that if you don't do what you're told then you are liable to be pulled off after 10 mins or so. That sort of management decision and public humiliation can weigh heavily on a young mind.

Mr Hallett has insinuated that he likes the way that Lowe treats players compared to DA. All I can say is that there are different ways to show a player the error of his ways. Just because its a mental punishment like pulling you off a pitch after ten minutes or publicly blaming/shaming the player(s), it doesn't mean the effect on the player isn't any different to a physical punishment like throwing a boot or whatever DA has apparently done. In fact, some would argue that the mental form of punishment is actually worse.

Nobby · Apr 22, 2021

I think Pan is a bit overrated. He is extremely unpolished in a lot of areas of his game. Finishing, passing and decision making need serious work if he's going to be a starting player in a team at the top end of this league.

Personally, I would deploy him in a midfield-pairing with a defensive midfielder, and have three attacking midfielders (LW, CAM, RW) to do the attacking. His engine and ability to win the ball back is his best attribute.

philevs · Apr 22, 2021

Pottypilgrim":945nv1h6 said:
Camara is a different player to the one that we first saw and that can only be down to the management and coaching team. I reckon what attracted Lowe to him and the way he naturally plays has been coached out of him. Its called developing his game :eh:

Lets not also forget that if you don't do what you're told then you are liable to be pulled off after 10 mins or so. That sort of management decision and public humiliation can weigh heavily on a young mind.

Mr Hallett has insinuated that he likes the way that Lowe treats players compared to DA. All I can say is that there are different ways to show a player the error of his ways. Just because its a mental punishment like pulling you off a pitch after ten minutes or publicly blaming/shaming the player(s), it doesn't mean the effect on the player isn't any different to a physical punishment like throwing a boot or whatever DA has apparently done. In fact, some would argue that the mental form of punishment is actually worse.

Enjoyed the depth of your analysis, and I do think you are on to something.
Pan certainly looked distraught when he was taken off after 10 mins.
Some players thrive on the bollocking approach but others definitely find it unhelpful and it’s then counterproductive. Good managers know this.

greenpilled · Apr 22, 2021

philevs":1rze1hki said:
Pottypilgrim":1rze1hki said:

Camara is a different player to the one that we first saw and that can only be down to the management and coaching team. I reckon what attracted Lowe to him and the way he naturally plays has been coached out of him. Its called developing his game :eh:

Lets not also forget that if you don't do what you're told then you are liable to be pulled off after 10 mins or so. That sort of management decision and public humiliation can weigh heavily on a young mind.

Mr Hallett has insinuated that he likes the way that Lowe treats players compared to DA. All I can say is that there are different ways to show a player the error of his ways. Just because its a mental punishment like pulling you off a pitch after ten minutes or publicly blaming/shaming the player(s), it doesn't mean the effect on the player isn't any different to a physical punishment like throwing a boot or whatever DA has apparently done. In fact, some would argue that the mental form of punishment is actually worse.

Click to expand...

Enjoyed the depth of your analysis, and I do think you are on to something.
Pan certainly looked distraught when he was taken off after 10 mins.
Some players thrive on the bollocking approach but others definitely find it unhelpful and it’s then counterproductive. Good managers know this.

His best form this season was in the new year, scoring v Huddersfield, Sheff United and Swindon a couple of months after the game at Fleetwood when he was subbed off after 10 minutes. It obviously had no lasting impact.

saxman · Apr 22, 2021

Nobby":2m5s4ft7 said:

I think Pan is a bit overrated. He is extremely unpolished in a lot of areas of his game. Finishing, passing and decision making need serious work if he's going to be a starting player in a team at the top end of this league.

Click to expand...

Nobby":2m5s4ft7 said:
Personally, I would deploy him in a midfield-pairing with a defensive midfielder, and have three attacking midfielders (LW, CAM, RW) to do the attacking. His engine and ability to win the ball back is his best attribute.

I agree with you. I really like him at times but he's a rough diamond and maybe trying to polish him has taken the edge off his game.

philevs · Apr 22, 2021

greenpilled":4oabkpm7 said:
philevs":4oabkpm7 said:

Pottypilgrim":4oabkpm7 said:

Camara is a different player to the one that we first saw and that can only be down to the management and coaching team. I reckon what attracted Lowe to him and the way he naturally plays has been coached out of him. Its called developing his game :eh:

Lets not also forget that if you don't do what you're told then you are liable to be pulled off after 10 mins or so. That sort of management decision and public humiliation can weigh heavily on a young mind.

Mr Hallett has insinuated that he likes the way that Lowe treats players compared to DA. All I can say is that there are different ways to show a player the error of his ways. Just because its a mental punishment like pulling you off a pitch after ten minutes or publicly blaming/shaming the player(s), it doesn't mean the effect on the player isn't any different to a physical punishment like throwing a boot or whatever DA has apparently done. In fact, some would argue that the mental form of punishment is actually worse.

Click to expand...

Enjoyed the depth of your analysis, and I do think you are on to something.
Pan certainly looked distraught when he was taken off after 10 mins.
Some players thrive on the bollocking approach but others definitely find it unhelpful and it’s then counterproductive. Good managers know this.

Click to expand...

His best form this season was in the new year, scoring v Huddersfield, Sheff United and Swindon a couple of months after the game at Fleetwood when he was subbed off after 10 minutes. It obviously had no lasting impact.

You’re probably right in that case.

Knibbsworth · Apr 22, 2021

Pottypilgrim":rawcl8x7 said:
Camara is a different player to the one that we first saw and that can only be down to the management and coaching team. I reckon what attracted Lowe to him and the way he naturally plays has been coached out of him. Its called developing his game :eh:

Lets not also forget that if you don't do what you're told then you are liable to be pulled off after 10 mins or so. That sort of management decision and public humiliation can weigh heavily on a young mind.

Mr Hallett has insinuated that he likes the way that Lowe treats players compared to DA. All I can say is that there are different ways to show a player the error of his ways. Just because its a mental punishment like pulling you off a pitch after ten minutes or publicly blaming/shaming the player(s), it doesn't mean the effect on the player isn't any different to a physical punishment like throwing a boot or whatever DA has apparently done. In fact, some would argue that the mental form of punishment is actually worse.

Camara has had some of his best performances since Fleetwood so I don't think it weighed too heavily on his mind.

Fornah had a dodgy spell and then came out of it. It is just called form.

It may be coaching but I really doubt Lowe would have wanted him to stop what he and Mayor were doing which was regularly getting Argyle 30 yards up the pitch with their dribbling.

davie nine · Apr 22, 2021

Nobby":k5ah1xx7 said:
I think Pan is a bit overrated. He is extremely unpolished in a lot of areas of his game. Finishing, passing and decision making need serious work if he's going to be a starting player in a team at the top end of this league.

Personally, I would deploy him in a midfield-pairing with a defensive midfielder, and have three attacking midfielders (LW, CAM, RW) to do the attacking. His engine and ability to win the ball back is his best attribute.

I agree with all of that, Nobby.
Finishing. He gets into decent scoring positions but he is not coordinated with his heading and his shots are normally easily blocked.
Passing. He is capable of winning the ball and progressing but his final delivery of a pass is inconsistent. He sometimes looks awkward and clumsy.
I do think that the potential is there with the right coaching.

briangreen · Apr 22, 2021

Pottypilgrim":t52p89td said:
Camara is a different player to the one that we first saw and that can only be down to the management and coaching team. I reckon what attracted Lowe to him and the way he naturally plays has been coached out of him. Its called developing his game :eh:

Lets not also forget that if you don't do what you're told then you are liable to be pulled off after 10 mins or so. That sort of management decision and public humiliation can weigh heavily on a young mind.

Mr Hallett has insinuated that he likes the way that Lowe treats players compared to DA. All I can say is that there are different ways to show a player the error of his ways. Just because its a mental punishment like pulling you off a pitch after ten minutes or publicly blaming/shaming the player(s), it doesn't mean the effect on the player isn't any different to a physical punishment like throwing a boot or whatever DA has apparently done. In fact, some would argue that the mental form of punishment is actually worse.

Lot of assumption there mate, I think you have a big down on Lowe somehow... :lol:

xmastree · Apr 22, 2021

Nobby":e7nnlpoe said:
I think Pan is a bit overrated. He is extremely unpolished in a lot of areas of his game. Finishing, passing and decision making need serious work if he's going to be a starting player in a team at the top end of this league.

Personally, I would deploy him in a midfield-pairing with a defensive midfielder, and have three attacking midfielders (LW, CAM, RW) to do the attacking. His engine and ability to win the ball back is his best attribute.

Much the way I feel.

Camara’s form

Paranoid Android

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