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Forward pass

Aug 5, 2016
5,100
1,408
greenpilled":3qu7nipo said:
Knibbsworth":3qu7nipo said:
greenpilled":3qu7nipo said:
It's nothing to do with the personnel. Mayor, Grant and Fornah are all good passers who have all picked out delightful through balls on occasion.

Really? I beg to differ on that.

Mayor typically dribbles the ball until he is within inches of being dispossessed and offloads it so someone else to deliver. If he can play these balls why doesn’t he ever do it himself?

Fornah plays safe passes back to the CBs or to the wing backs, sometimes to his fellow midfielders but very rarely to the strikers.

Where have these delightful through balls been all season because I haven’t seen many of them.

When you consider that Adam Lewis has two assists, then Fornah’s 3 and Mayor’s 3 really aren’t that impressive after 45 league games and a good cup run.

Both have played virtually all season. George Cooper by comparison had 12 assists from 27 starts in a position he had never played before.

It is a bit unfair to credit Fornah and Mayor with the kind of vision and ability Cooper has, because it certainly hasn’t been backed up by the stats.

I am sure Hardie would agree his service this season has been of a far lower quality than before.

no, you've misunderstood the point being made in the part of the post that you didn't selectively quote (and I think the point being made by the original poster).

The comparison with Cooper is apples and oranges. He played as a left wing back last season. Most of his assists were crosses/pullbacks from the side of the pitch. This thread was about through balls played forward from central midfield.

Fornah and Mayor are both very capable of this. Mayor slipped Ennis in with a nice pass to score against Oxford. Fornah played a beautiful ball down the line to start the move from which we scored against Blackpool.

The reason their stats don't reflect them doing this more often is because they rarely have options in front of them, because of the formation we play.

I didn't selectively quote anything. That sentence was the bit I was responding to, that Mayor and Fornah were capable of brilliant through balls.

George Cooper had numerous assists through the centre of the pitch last season, some short some long. So did Bakinson.

We are playing the exact same formation as last season using two strikers. One of those strikers was this division's top scorer in January and the other has electric pace. It is hardly Alex Fletcher up front on his own, back to goal like in the days of Adams.

I am not sure this point that Mayor and Fornah have incredible passing ability but no-one to pass to stacks up to scrutiny. Any good passer will unlock Hardie and Ennis but our centre midfielders this season largely haven't.
 
Jul 12, 2016
7,775
4,960
argobenz":1j3e5j9n said:
philevs":1j3e5j9n said:
argobenz":1j3e5j9n said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3
You can see it,I can see it,Lowe can see it. Why does he persist with it?
 
Mar 15, 2007
5,191
3,277
Plymouth
oldage":1vz791s2 said:
argobenz":1vz791s2 said:
philevs":1vz791s2 said:
argobenz":1vz791s2 said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3
You can see it,I can see it,Lowe can see it. Why does he persist with it?

The logic that Mayor's assist stats prove our attacking play doesn't work only stacks up if Mayor is the one crossing/passing the final ball. Why do you think George Cooper and Conor Grant have racked up so many assists over the past two seasons from playing LWB? It's like saying Joe Edwards not winning enough headers is the reason we can't defend set pieces. Far too simplistic.

I agree that our attacking play should be more versatile, but that doesn't mean we should stop attacking down the wings, it has brought us relative success over the past two seasons.
 

Pogleswoody

R.I.P
Jul 3, 2006
20,748
4,410
72
Location Location
Yes Mayor makes the space for, gets in the right area of the pitch for, takes opponents out of the play and gives the ball to the assister 8-9 times out of ten!! :nworthy:

I suspect he is married to an assister's sister he's so involved!!

If you think Mayor isn't worth a place in our League One team then I just don't know what you watch!
 
Feb 9, 2021
173
112
Pogleswoody":20zgmvrl said:
Yes Mayor makes the space for, gets in the right area of the pitch for, takes opponents out of the play and gives the ball to the assister 8-9 times out of ten!! :nworthy:

I suspect he is married to an assister's sister he's so involved!!

If you think Mayor isn't worth a place in our League One team then I just don't know what you watch!
I posted this in another thread but it's relevant to this debate

I have to laugh when I hear how great Danny is and that Conner Grant assists are all down to Danny!
Just for the record, of Grants 14 assists Danny has assisted him twice yes twice!
Danny has 3 league assists and 2 f a cup assists(both assisted by Grant!) and 1 league cup
This is not having a go at Danny it's just to clarify people's perceptions
Grant is also one of our players and has been outstanding this season with 14 assists and let's not forget he has scored 4 league goals from outside the box compared to Danny's 1
I think a little credit should perhaps be directed towards Grant and I think he will be a big loss if he goes which looks likely given his stats this season
I hope this puts to bed the myth of Danny assisting the assister in relation to Connet Grant
 

Pogleswoody

R.I.P
Jul 3, 2006
20,748
4,410
72
Location Location
Matt Green Army":1akwj7t1 said:
Pogleswoody":1akwj7t1 said:
Yes Mayor makes the space for, gets in the right area of the pitch for, takes opponents out of the play and gives the ball to the assister 8-9 times out of ten!! :nworthy:

I suspect he is married to an assister's sister he's so involved!!

If you think Mayor isn't worth a place in our League One team then I just don't know what you watch!
I posted this in another thread but it's relevant to this debate

I have to laugh when I hear how great Danny is and that Conner Grant assists are all down to Danny!
Just for the record, of Grants 14 assists Danny has assisted him twice yes twice!
Danny has 3 league assists and 2 f a cup assists(both assisted by Grant!) and 1 league cup
This is not having a go at Danny it's just to clarify people's perceptions
Grant is also one of our players and has been outstanding this season with 14 assists and let's not forget he has scored 4 league goals from outside the box compared to Danny's 1
I think a little credit should perhaps be directed towards Grant and I think he will be a big loss if he goes which looks likely given his stats this season
I hope this puts to bed the myth of Danny assisting the assister in relation to Connet Grant

Your opinion puts a myth to bed?
I am not worthy oh mighty Matt how should I be punished? :nworthy:
 

Pogleswoody

R.I.P
Jul 3, 2006
20,748
4,410
72
Location Location
Matt Green Army":3561gbjj said:
Pogleswoody":3561gbjj said:
Yes Mayor makes the space for, gets in the right area of the pitch for, takes opponents out of the play and gives the ball to the assister 8-9 times out of ten!! :nworthy:

I suspect he is married to an assister's sister he's so involved!!

If you think Mayor isn't worth a place in our League One team then I just don't know what you watch!
I posted this in another thread but it's relevant to this debate

I have to laugh when I hear how great Danny is and that Conner Grant assists are all down to Danny!
Just for the record, of Grants 14 assists Danny has assisted him twice yes twice!
Danny has 3 league assists and 2 f a cup assists(both assisted by Grant!) and 1 league cup
This is not having a go at Danny it's just to clarify people's perceptions
Grant is also one of our players and has been outstanding this season with 14 assists and let's not forget he has scored 4 league goals from outside the box compared to Danny's 1
I think a little credit should perhaps be directed towards Grant and I think he will be a big loss if he goes which looks likely given his stats this season
I hope this puts to bed the myth of Danny assisting the assister in relation to Connet Grant

Your opinion puts a myth to bed?
I am not worthy oh mighty Matt how should I be punished? :nworthy:

Connet in a bonnet please write me a sonnet.
 

JannerinCardiff

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♣️ SWAG Member
Jul 16, 2018
7,837
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Cardiff
argobenz":2eobhojk said:
philevs":2eobhojk said:
argobenz":2eobhojk said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3

I’d like to know how many times Mayor has drawn his opponent in and laid it off to the eventual assister of goals scored. I’ll bet it’s more than any other Argyle player - I recall the two assists that Adam Lewis had in one game were both due down to Mayor who laid the ball off the Adam’s in space that Mayor had created.
 
Feb 9, 2021
173
112
JannerinCardiff":2u27byk0 said:
argobenz":2u27byk0 said:
philevs":2u27byk0 said:
argobenz":2u27byk0 said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3

I’d like to know how many times Mayor has drawn his opponent in and laid it off to the eventual assister of goals scored. I’ll bet it’s more than any other Argyle player - I recall the two assists that Adam Lewis had in one game were both due down to Mayor who laid the ball off the Adam’s in space that Mayor had created.
Both by Grant! but let Danny have them!!
 

Pogleswoody

R.I.P
Jul 3, 2006
20,748
4,410
72
Location Location
Matt Green Army":3625e4h4 said:
JannerinCardiff":3625e4h4 said:
argobenz":3625e4h4 said:
philevs":3625e4h4 said:
argobenz":3625e4h4 said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3

I’d like to know how many times Mayor has drawn his opponent in and laid it off to the eventual assister of goals scored. I’ll bet it’s more than any other Argyle player - I recall the two assists that Adam Lewis had in one game were both due down to Mayor who laid the ball off the Adam’s in space that Mayor had created.
Both by Grant! but let Danny have them!!

He didn't say that though.
 
Jul 12, 2016
7,775
4,960
JannerinCardiff":3ho7jevm said:
argobenz":3ho7jevm said:
philevs":3ho7jevm said:
argobenz":3ho7jevm said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3

I’d like to know how many times Mayor has drawn his opponent in and laid it off to the eventual assister of goals scored. I’ll bet it’s more than any other Argyle player - I recall the two assists that Adam Lewis had in one game were both due down to Mayor who laid the ball off the Adam’s in space that Mayor had created.
Clutching at straws. A luxury player who flatters to deceive.
 
Jul 12, 2016
7,775
4,960
Pogleswoody":2v5hx0bz said:
Yes Mayor makes the space for, gets in the right area of the pitch for, takes opponents out of the play and gives the ball to the assister 8-9 times out of ten!! :nworthy:

I suspect he is married to an assister's sister he's so involved!!

If you think Mayor isn't worth a place in our League One team then I just don't know what you watch!
During my many years of supporting Argyle I cannot recall another player who has been selected to play regardless of his performances.Since Mayor arrived we have seen glimpses of his ability but more often than not he goes missing for half the game. He is a good player but IMHO he isn't worth a place in our team based on this season's form
 

davie nine

R.I.P
Jan 23, 2015
7,785
347
77
Plympton
Have a look at the results when he didn’t play.
Rochdale (H) 0-4
Ipswich (H) 1-2. Leading 1-0 when he was sent off.
Bristol Rovers (A) 0-3
Heavy defeats against 2 of the relegated teams.
 
Apr 20, 2008
4,166
682
Plymouth
JannerinCardiff":3h11rv0v said:
argobenz":3h11rv0v said:
philevs":3h11rv0v said:
argobenz":3h11rv0v said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3

I’d like to know how many times Mayor has drawn his opponent in and laid it off to the eventual assister of goals scored. I’ll bet it’s more than any other Argyle player - I recall the two assists that Adam Lewis had in one game were both due down to Mayor who laid the ball off the Adam’s in space that Mayor had created.
I worked this out back in around Feb-time, and Mayor was indeed leading the "secondary assist" totals with 10, more than double any other Argyle player.

I'll re-tally it at the end of the season if anyone is interested.
 
Feb 9, 2021
173
112
Dan Ellard":o8s4godq said:
JannerinCardiff":o8s4godq said:
argobenz":o8s4godq said:
philevs":o8s4godq said:
argobenz":o8s4godq said:
Please can we look for a couple of players who can see and make a telling forward pass next season.

This run to the line before slamming it into the stands or against the first man is pitiful.

Think the aim of the style of play RL likes is to get to the line and put in a cross, mainly with Danny Mayor involved. I agree that it would be good to see some variation to this, in the form of diagonal runs from strikers who are then picked out with an incisive pass. Personally I find our attacking too predictable, and think that the second half of the season has shown that to be the case.

Just look at Mayor's assists, it proves it doesn't work.

2020-21 games 43 goals 1 assists 3

I’d like to know how many times Mayor has drawn his opponent in and laid it off to the eventual assister of goals scored. I’ll bet it’s more than any other Argyle player - I recall the two assists that Adam Lewis had in one game were both due down to Mayor who laid the ball off the Adam’s in space that Mayor had created.
I worked this out back in around Feb-time, and Mayor was indeed leading the "secondary assist" totals with 10, more than double any other Argyle player.

I'll re-tally it at the end of the season if anyone is interested.
Dan when I posted last night it wasn't to criticise Danny it was to highlight the fact that Grant hasnt relied on Danny to make goals this season ,that may not have been the case last season in league 2 with Fadz and coops
They are both our players but the facts this season in league 1 suggest that although Danny plays nearly every minute of every game the most dangerous midfielders have been Joe Conner and Pan
I still think we will miss Grant if he goes as surely other clubs driven by data have noticed