Will it be Derby not Wycombe v Argyle next season?

Dan Ellard · May 12, 2021

Derby had quite a day yesterday... there was the aforementioned accounting policies decision, Richard Keogh being awarded £2.3 million in compensation after Derby sacked him in 2019, and then there is Erik Alonso.

The bloke has been continuously asked for proof of funds to secure the takeover of the club, and he thought he'd alleviate those concerns by putting up a video of an expensive looking house with the caption "good morning". It was then discovered that he'd stolen the video off of Tiktok and the house wasn't his :lol: he then deleted his twitter and claimed he'd been hacked.

If the EFL (somehow) approve this takeover bid, I feel that every other club's "problem owners" will pale in comparison to what this bloke might do.

ZeeZan6 · May 12, 2021

Lundan Cabbie":2p2zmt5b said:
German Shepherd":2p2zmt5b said:

If they've cheated through not adhering to FFP rules then they've been playing with players they really shouldn't have which surely affected what happened this season so they should be relegated & Wycombe stay up.
Fair play to Ainsworth , what he's done there is fantastic.

Click to expand...

They've not exactly been cheating though, they have just used a different accounting format to arrive at their profit/loss figure. In accounting circles they've done nothing wrong. By amortising player values over the length of their contracts, a bigger profit can be shown when they sell.

You might ask, why would they want to record larger profits? Well Championship clubs are allowed to lose up to £39 million per year so by using a different calculating method on their transfer activity, they can show themselves further away from that cap albeit only on paper.

So how?

If you buy a player for £12 million and sell him twelve months later for £24 million, then to you and I a profit of £12 million has been made.

However, if you sign a player for £12 million and his value is amortised over the length of his 4 year contract, his value one year later is only £9 million. Sell him at this point for £24 million and a profit of £15 million can be recorded.

Their appeal has failed because the rules assume that everyone calculates their losses in the same way. Good try Derby but hard luck.

Thanks for the explanation LC! I haven't been following things closely (despite working in Derby and having Derby County friends) and this has really helped me to understand it in simple terms!

The Doctor · May 12, 2021

Lundan Cabbie":2s5mqcc1 said:
German Shepherd":2s5mqcc1 said:

If they've cheated through not adhering to FFP rules then they've been playing with players they really shouldn't have which surely affected what happened this season so they should be relegated & Wycombe stay up.
Fair play to Ainsworth , what he's done there is fantastic.

Click to expand...

They've not exactly been cheating though, they have just used a different accounting format to arrive at their profit/loss figure. In accounting circles they've done nothing wrong. By amortising player values over the length of their contracts, a bigger profit can be shown when they sell.

You might ask, why would they want to record larger profits? Well Championship clubs are allowed to lose up to £39 million per year so by using a different calculating method on their transfer activity, they can show themselves further away from that cap albeit only on paper.

So how?

If you buy a player for £12 million and sell him twelve months later for £24 million, then to you and I a profit of £12 million has been made.

However, if you sign a player for £12 million and his value is amortised over the length of his 4 year contract, his value one year later is only £9 million. Sell him at this point for £24 million and a profit of £15 million can be recorded.

Their appeal has failed because the rules assume that everyone calculates their losses in the same way. Good try Derby but hard luck.

Surely, considering transactions related to that player only, you make a £3m loss in Year 1, a £15m profit in Year 2 and then FURTHER LOSSES of £3m in Years 3 and 4. So whilst this strategy can make the figures seem better from the year of purchase through to the year of sale, they become worse for any remaining years after the sale occurs. That becomes significant if you pass stewardship of the club to someone else as they get lumbered with the negative years whilst you benefit from the positive ones.

(I think)

Lundan Cabbie · May 12, 2021

The Doctor":3gbxs99f said:
Lundan Cabbie":3gbxs99f said:

German Shepherd":3gbxs99f said:

If they've cheated through not adhering to FFP rules then they've been playing with players they really shouldn't have which surely affected what happened this season so they should be relegated & Wycombe stay up.
Fair play to Ainsworth , what he's done there is fantastic.

Click to expand...

They've not exactly been cheating though, they have just used a different accounting format to arrive at their profit/loss figure. In accounting circles they've done nothing wrong. By amortising player values over the length of their contracts, a bigger profit can be shown when they sell.

You might ask, why would they want to record larger profits? Well Championship clubs are allowed to lose up to £39 million per year so by using a different calculating method on their transfer activity, they can show themselves further away from that cap albeit only on paper.

So how?

If you buy a player for £12 million and sell him twelve months later for £24 million, then to you and I a profit of £12 million has been made.

However, if you sign a player for £12 million and his value is amortised over the length of his 4 year contract, his value one year later is only £9 million. Sell him at this point for £24 million and a profit of £15 million can be recorded.

Their appeal has failed because the rules assume that everyone calculates their losses in the same way. Good try Derby but hard luck.

Click to expand...

Surely, considering transactions related to that player only, you make a £3m loss in Year 1, a £15m profit in Year 2 and then FURTHER LOSSES of £3m in Years 3 and 4. So whilst this strategy can make the figures seem better from the year of purchase through to the year of sale, they become worse for any remaining years after the sale occurs. That becomes significant if you pass stewardship of the club to someone else as they get lumbered with the negative years whilst you benefit from the positive ones.

(I think)

Once sold, the player is no longer an asset so wont be on the books in years 3 and 4.

jerryatricjanner · May 12, 2021

Devongreenowl":3vc71lfo said:
Funny thread this one. We’ve got a minnow club who against all the odds have managed to drag their way up to the Championship, losing out in the end to a big name club who have been caught out using creative accountancy methods. Said minnow club gets labelled 'horrible little club' while a case is made that big name club hasn’t really done anything wrong. Football eh!

I look forward to seeing Gareth Ainsworth rock up at HP next season in his boots, leather jacket and whatever hairstyle he is rocking. Proper football character, good manager and nice bloke.

I agree on Ainsworth and would be delighted if he were our manager though I think he will always be in or around London.

Devongreenowl · May 12, 2021

That would be interesting Jerry. There’d be one or two on here who would have a right thromby if Hallett announced him as manager! I would be amazed if he didn’t get an opportunity at a bigger club next season.

Keepitgreen · May 12, 2021

I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Devongreenowl · May 12, 2021

Keepitgreen":3uvc5mcq said:
I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Why’s that then KIG?

Keepitgreen · May 12, 2021

Devongreenowl":11dlp0mo said:
Keepitgreen":11dlp0mo said:

I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Click to expand...

Why’s that then KIG?

The club would want to keep the fans on side.

Willis88 · May 12, 2021

Keepitgreen":3rfv5433 said:
Devongreenowl":3rfv5433 said:

Keepitgreen":3rfv5433 said:

I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Click to expand...

Why’s that then KIG?

Click to expand...

The club would want to keep the fans on side.

Can't see pretending to be shot everything the wind blows is the style of football Mr H wants Argyle to play.

Plus as a fan I'd love to be home after the game before midnight....

Devongreenowl · May 12, 2021

Willis88":20t8avi3 said:
Keepitgreen":20t8avi3 said:

Devongreenowl":20t8avi3 said:

Keepitgreen":20t8avi3 said:

I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Click to expand...

Why’s that then KIG?

Click to expand...

The club would want to keep the fans on side.

Click to expand...

Can't see pretending to be shot everything the wind blows is the style of football Mr H wants Argyle to play.

Plus as a fan I'd love to be home after the game before midnight....

You haven’t seen Wycombe play for a while have you

jerryatricjanner · May 12, 2021

Devongreenowl":2h9w5pad said:
That would be interesting Jerry. There’d be one or two on here who would have a right thromby if Hallett announced him as manager! I would be amazed if he didn’t get an opportunity at a bigger club next season.

I'm sure he will one day but think it will be something closer to home and maybe a slight step up from Argyle. Regarding the thromby it might be a dozen rather than one or two but it I'm sure 99% would be quite happy if results on the field were ok.

Pogleswoody · May 12, 2021

jerryatricjanner":287p8j0l said:
Devongreenowl":287p8j0l said:

That would be interesting Jerry. There’d be one or two on here who would have a right thromby if Hallett announced him as manager! I would be amazed if he didn’t get an opportunity at a bigger club next season.

Click to expand...

I'm sure he will one day but think it will be something closer to home and maybe a slight step up from Argyle. Regarding the thromby it might be a dozen rather than one or two but it I'm sure 99% would be quite happy if results on the field were ok.

I must be a part of the 1% then. ..... That'll do!! :scarf: 8

David Friio's mate · May 13, 2021

Keepitgreen":11mph45c said:
Devongreenowl":11mph45c said:

Keepitgreen":11mph45c said:

I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Click to expand...

Why’s that then KIG?

Click to expand...

The club would want to keep the fans on side.

Win 2 games in a row and Argyle fans en masse would forget they ever had any problem with him.

Ainsworth is a superb manager, it's ridiculous to deny it. Wycombe are so ludicrously out of their depth financially that to even have a possibility of staying up is a wonderful achievement - the teams immediately around them would have 10x their budget.

I'd have Ainsworth at Argyle in a heartbeat - I suspect he'll get something more akin to a Pompey though.

Devongreenowl · May 13, 2021

David Friio's mate":3jex03qt said:
Keepitgreen":3jex03qt said:

Devongreenowl":3jex03qt said:

Keepitgreen":3jex03qt said:

I could never see Argyle ever employing him.

Click to expand...

Why’s that then KIG?

Click to expand...

The club would want to keep the fans on side.

Click to expand...

Win 2 games in a row and Argyle fans en masse would forget they ever had any problem with him.

Ainsworth is a superb manager, it's ridiculous to deny it. Wycombe are so ludicrously out of their depth financially that to even have a possibility of staying up is a wonderful achievement - the teams immediately around them would have 10x their budget.

I'd have Ainsworth at Argyle in a heartbeat - I suspect he'll get something more akin to a Pompey though.

Spot on. It’s the same when supporters hate a player who played for a rival team. Utter nonsense. Ainsworth would be great for a club like Argyle, but has proved he can manage at a higher level.
I think he will get a Championship job myself and would think he would be in with a shout if Blackburn decide to part with Mowbray this summer.