Ben Reeves

I’m scratching my head at this thread tbh.

Why would we resign a player when a manager has no faith in him and choose to never give him a proper run.

Lowe says he doesn’t fit our style of play. What was out style of play? Sideways, back ways and lose the ball in our own half. I’m sure Reeves could of fitted in with that style.

How on earth we even know how good he is beyond me.

Next season we need people good on the ball. Yes our priority is finding defenders but our crossing and passing is woeful at times. Mayor is a great dribbler. He has proven after two seasons he has no end product with deliveries in terms of shooting or crossing. Why do people get excited about a guy that dribbles past a player and when it comes to that final ball often went to the opposition player or was a shot off target.

You can only go on what we have witness regarding players. Don’t tell me to end with after 2 wins after 17 games that Reeves didn’t deserve a run in the team, and that Mayor wasn’t droppable. You play people on merit of their performances. For example, Edwards.

The reason lm highlighting Mayor is because there were many poor performances, like other players, but Reeves deserved a chance in a central forward advanced midfield role to see what he could do. Instead, we would take off the CDM and put Reeves on for 10 mins in that position.

I understand Mayor has more skill than many of the current member of the Argyle team. However, what’s the point if there isn’t a end product. We will never know if Reeves had an end product as he never got a proper chance in that position. Lowe bangs on about our style of play. We never had one. We’d got so desperate we started lumping the ball up the pitch. We went from a 3ATB to a 4ATB. So makes me frustrated to hear a player doesn’t suit our style.

The manager completely lost the plot at times last season. Didn’t know what system to play or what in game tactics to change when it wasn’t working. Yes the players have to accept the responsibility of their performances but if your playing players to fit your system and those players can’t function in that system then it has to be down on the manager.

The reason that Mayor is not so productive as we would like is because opposing teams know that he is virtually the only player capable of, regularly, driving us forward.
There is no balance in our midfield and opponents load the side that he attacks from and can feel confident that there is much less danger from the right side.
In the early season, Camara provided some balance but, for some reason, he seemed to lose his enthusiasm and effectiveness. The GPS stats on Camara would be interesting.

Pottypilgrim":oth18z9j said:

Justin":oth18z9j said:

Pottypilgrim":oth18z9j said:

HC Green":oth18z9j said:

Lowe said: "Reevesy is a fantastic footballer, a lovely person, a great lad to have around but didn't suit my style."

Football or clothes?

If football why didn’t the data analysis and fantastic recruitment process pick that up?

Click to expand...

Releasing Reeves is another example that demonstrates Lowe doesn't have a clue as far as I'm concerned. Why would he not want to keep and play an established league one footballer, happy on either foot, energetic, can pick a pass, aggressive in the tackle and can score goals.

Reeves should have been given far more game time than he was.

Click to expand...

Why did he also get released by previous clubs?

You want Argyle to fill a squad full of 30 year olds unsuitable for the way the manager wants to play?

Click to expand...

Why sign him in the first place then? It's not as if Lowe didn't know what type of player he is as he would have had the data analysis and had him watched.

Lowe is erratic and out of his depth as a league one manager. I believe that we will really struggle again next season.

Click to expand...

Yep my thoughts exactly. With all this data analytics why on earth was Ben signed if he didn't suit the RL style. Something doesn't add up with these signings.

We get told the club is big on data analytics but the majority of last seasons signing didn't work because either:-
1. Young and kept making mistakes
2. Too injury prone
3. Their natural position doesn't suit RLs style of play.

All the above should surely be picked out by the data.

Ben Reeves was one of the signings last summer I was most excited about tbh.

davie nine":xni1yldo said:

The reason that Mayor is not so productive as we would like is because opposing teams know that he is virtually the only player capable of, regularly, driving us forward.
There is no balance in our midfield and opponents load the side that he attacks from and can feel confident that there is much less danger from the right side.
In the early season, Camara provided some balance but, for some reason, he seemed to lose his enthusiasm and effectiveness. The GPS stats on Camara would be interesting.

Click to expand...

But Davie it’s not the opposition teams affecting his final cross or shot. How many times do we see him in a good position only to be disappointed with the final delivery? If you say Mayor is a great dribbler at league one level l think most would agree. However, after this you can’t honest say he is a great passer, crosser or shooter of a football.

To show lm not picking on Mayor. Edwards had a great season. His attribute is his work man like display and his driving runs into the box. However, if you watch him when he gets out wide to the by line in the opposition final third his crosses/ deliveries in that area aren’t good either.

I find it baffling we play a system with two forwards and yet the service they receive from wide positions is terrible.

Every single club in the EFL will currently be releasing players whom they signed but it just hasn’t quite worked out, for a multitude of reasons. That’s football. It’s happened under Lowe, it happened under Adams (to a much greater extent), it happened under Sheridan and every other manager we’ve ever had.

This just seems like another pointless bit of Lowe bashing to me.

Will mayor get any other offers from clubs?

Probably not. Would show he underperformed this season.

PL2 3DQ":szrnyebz said:

I felt sorry for Reeves travelling around the country in difficult times hoping to play 10 minutes at the end of a game, for an experienced player it must have been frustrating for him. He made the fifth highest amount of sub appearances in League One.

That said, it was a Covid season and last summer Lowe had to have more squad fillers than usual and all managers do make signings that for different reasons don't work out (Sean Evers).

I remember the previous Argyle manager signing Lionel Ainsworth, Gregg Wylde second time, Simon Church, Paul Paton, Daniel Nardiello, Karleigh Osborne, Paul Paton and David Ijaha all who hardly played. It happens.

Click to expand...

You missed David Goodwillie, an extremely talented footballer who obviously needed to play as part of a two (a system Adams never used). A huge waste.

Metal_Green_Mickey":329zjlbj said:

davie nine":329zjlbj said:

The reason that Mayor is not so productive as we would like is because opposing teams know that he is virtually the only player capable of, regularly, driving us forward.
There is no balance in our midfield and opponents load the side that he attacks from and can feel confident that there is much less danger from the right side.
In the early season, Camara provided some balance but, for some reason, he seemed to lose his enthusiasm and effectiveness. The GPS stats on Camara would be interesting.

Click to expand...

But Davie it’s not the opposition teams affecting his final cross or shot. How many times do we see him in a good position only to be disappointed with the final delivery? If you say Mayor is a great dribbler at league one level l think most would agree. However, after this you can’t honest say he is a great passer, crosser or shooter of a football.

To show lm not picking on Mayor. Edwards had a great season. His attribute is his work man like display and his driving runs into the box. However, if you watch him when he gets out wide to the by line in the opposition final third his crosses/ deliveries in that area aren’t good either.

I find it baffling we play a system with two forwards and yet the service they receive from wide positions is terrible.

Click to expand...

That is why I said that opponents are able to load the side that he attacks from. Of course, it is ‘the opposing teams affecting his final cross or shot’ because they are not worried about the danger coming from the right side and they are able to block his
shots or passes.
Other than Conor Grant, what other players did we have this season who can shoot from outside the penalty area? I can only recall one from Reeves in the FA Cup match against Lincoln.
One other point I have mentioned more than once is that we lost heavily in the 2 league games that he did not play and when he was sent off we were leading 1-0 and, within a few minutes, we conceded 2 goals and lost 1-2.
I am not saying that he had a great season but I do think that, with a better balanced midfield and much more experienced defence, he could become a much more valuable asset to our aim of being a good attacking team.

Cobi Budge":1ru7gtfi said:

Every single club in the EFL will currently be releasing players whom they signed but it just hasn’t quite worked out, for a multitude of reasons. That’s football. It’s happened under Lowe, it happened under Adams (to a much greater extent), it happened under Sheridan and every other manager we’ve ever had.

This just seems like another pointless bit of Lowe bashing to me.

Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, all those other managers didn't have access to the much lauded data analytics. So, as Lowe is experiencing the same sort of problems that all our other managers have experienced when it comes to recruitment, I guess what you're saying is that its pointless having the data analytics :think:

If thats the case, then I for one agree with you. In fact, I've been saying for ages that data analytics is a waste of time and money for a team like ours in the location we are in. I have yet to see how it has benefited the team in one way. I've seen how its cost us though.

GreenThing":1goaiujr said:

oldage":1goaiujr said:

GreenThing":1goaiujr said:

All managers at all clubs sign a fair amount of players who look good and have proved their worth at other clubs, but for some reason or another just don’t work out. If Lowe is to be condemned for this, then so should every manager who has worked in football.

Click to expand...

You are missing the point. Lowe is for ever telling us about the data led meticulous planning involved before any new player is signed. When Reeves didn't work out he didn't suit our style!
Lowe also triesto fit square pegs in round holes which to a certain extent defeats the whole object.

Click to expand...

I’m not missing the point. My point is that you can do all the research and watch players as long as you like but you only find out if a player will fit in when they arrive and play.

Click to expand...

So I repeat ,what is the point of the meticulous planning? :facepalm:

Pottypilgrim":2pudqojc said:

Cobi Budge":2pudqojc said:

Every single club in the EFL will currently be releasing players whom they signed but it just hasn’t quite worked out, for a multitude of reasons. That’s football. It’s happened under Lowe, it happened under Adams (to a much greater extent), it happened under Sheridan and every other manager we’ve ever had.

This just seems like another pointless bit of Lowe bashing to me.

Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, all those other managers didn't have access to the much lauded data analytics. So, as Lowe is experiencing the same sort of problems that all our other managers have experienced when it comes to recruitment, I guess what you're saying is that its pointless having the data analytics :think:

If thats the case, then I for one agree with you. In fact, I've been saying for ages that data analytics is a waste of time and money for a team like ours in the location we are in. I have yet to see how it has benefited the team in one way. I've seen how its cost us though.

Click to expand...

You can't argue with any of the above. :thumbup:

In business would you rather have less information or more information about your investment? It is as simple as that.

There is obvious value in data analytics to assess performance and recruitment. It shouldn’t be used in isolation but to not use it would be negligent as a professional outfit looking to be progressive and sustainable.

This.

It's surprising how some are so reluctant to embrace change, new innovatives and progress in the game and like to hark back to the distant past when in their minds things were so much better.
Footballers these days are born with no more talent than they were in the 1960s but playing standards have improved noticeably. Of course they benefit from vastly superior pitches to play on, lighter balls, boots etc but also from great strides that have been made in diet, sports science and training regimes amongst other things that have made them generally bigger, stronger and faster athletes just as in any sport in the past 60 years. Skilful players also get much more protection from referees now and more opportunity to express their talent.Also in recent years since the Bosman ruling players have so much more power. No manager would get away with some of the verbal abuse, throwing of tea cups in the dressing room and strict discipline that the old school managers like Cullis, Nicholson, Clough and Saunders used to name just a few. They have to manage very differently in this day and age whether you feel that is a good or a bad thing.
Likewise in very recent years data analysis is another tool that clubs are using to gain a slight edge. It isn't fool proof of course but it is something else to help try and gain a small advantage. It surprises me to hear people dismissing it out of hand when it is relatively new and when in all honesty they know very little about it.
I had a chat one day with Newcastle's 1st team data man Billy Coulston, a Tavistock lad who played in the youth ranks at Argyle. It was extremely interesting and enlightning and helped me as someone with a bit of a dinosaur outlook see things differently and with a much more open mind.

The significant difference for Argyle is our location. Data analytics may well be helpful for clubs less remote but I don't believe it works for us.

Say Ryan Lowe consults a computer and it gives him a list of candidates that meet his parameters for a certain position. He obviously wants the one at the top of the list but unfortunately the guy doesnt want to move down here so Lowe looks at the next one. The thing is, he finds he gets the same response from everyone else so we end up with someone toward the bottom of the list unless of course we get the very big cheque book out. Or we get someone with a history of injuries, or an untried youngster, or a veteran looking for a final pay check.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing to do with not embracing change. I would much rather we used the time and money in a much better way and accept it doesn't work for us. Lowe himself has said that they got the recruitment badly wrong. I suggest that is because they place too much reliance on a useless tool. Not all change is good and/or necessary. The chairman has said he is happy with people when they are underperforming as long as they can show that they're learning. Hopefully Lowe will ditch data analytics as that would go a long way to showing me that he's learning.