Ben Reeves | Page 7 | PASOTI
  • Welcome to PASOTI. Sponsored by Lang & Potter

Ben Reeves

demportdave

šŸŒ Bomber Harris.
Jul 6, 2005
3,750
1,532
Argylegames":3h1114zv said:
jimsing":3h1114zv said:
Potty,

Hallett has insisted that data analytics is used, and Lowe has agreed to use it, otherwise he would not have become manager, so it is here to stay, I'm afraid.


That confuses me as Lowe brought his data analyst with him from Bury. I think the Chairman said he wanted a manager who used analysis and found one.

It is big in the USA of course since it was 'invented' in Baseball.
It's 2021 and the age of IT. All businesses use data analysis to some extent af least so why would professional sport be different and take a Luddite attitude.

Its not new to football anyway, the likes of Graham Taylor and Dave Bassett were employing data analysts 30-odd years ago to sit in the stand counting the number of long balls launched into the box that led to goal scoring opportunities.

It's obviously moved on a heck of a lot since then, particularly with regard to player recruitment. Sam Allardyce used it at Bolton as well many years ago, as he said it helped them compete with the so-called bigger teams who could afford to spend millions on players who didn't cut the mustard and just bought more.

As a Baseball fan, I'm not sure data analytics was actually 'invented' in Baseball, as portrayed in the film Moneyball. The way in which the Oakland Athletics - a small budget team - used it to great effect was to look at a set of statistics that were mostly overlooked by the other teams in MLB in order to find players with very specific attributes. They have been very successful over many years signing players discarded by other teams.
 
Aug 5, 2016
5,100
1,408
Pottypilgrim":2o104cdw said:
Dan Ellard":2o104cdw said:
jerryatricjanner":2o104cdw said:
Whether you prove to be right or wrong in the fullness of time Oldage you seem to have a very closed mind on so many issues. I have just read another interesting article about Leicester City's Scottish first team analyst. Brendan Rodgers read some blogs the then 19 year old had posted on a German football website whilst manager at Celtic. He invited him to Celtic Park and recruited him and then when taking over at Leicester brought him down from Scotland where the now 24 year old is apparently just one of the cogs that help make up a successful backroom team at the club. Without wishing to sound patronising sometimes we need to open our minds just a little before dismissing things out of hand.
Leicester also used analysts / analytics heavily the year they won the title.

Can I just re-iterate as well to all the doubters - analytics is everywhere in the professional game now. This idea that almost every other club has some bloke as a chief scout and nothing else couldn't be further from the truth.

Combining the two facts of "Argyle use analytics" and "Argyle have done badly this season" is a huge case of putting 2 and 2 together and making 5. Maybe we have capacity to improve the analytics side of things, either by process or personnel, I don't know. But this idea that we should scrap the scheme all together and go back to the old method because we've had one bad season is nonsense. If it isn't worth doing, why is almost every professional club doing it?

From a football perspective, almost smack bang in the middle of the Country and accessible to the majority of decent players. My issue with data analytics for Argyle is that we are not geographically smack bang in the middle of the footballing world and so are far, far less an attractive proposition for the best footballers, unless, like I say, we offer stupid wages.

Like you say, almost every other professional club is using the tool so the same players we want will probably be on their lists as well so where do you think the player is going to opt for? Its a waste of money for our club because of where we are. I'm not saying data analytics is a rubbish tool, I'm saying it does not work for us so bin it, save a shedload of money and adopt a different recruitment strategy.

Most of the decent players Leicester are signing arenā€™t nipping down from Manchester or up from London.

Riyad Mahrez, Ndidi, Tielemans, Ngolo Kante, Okazaki, Soyuncu, Fofana, Iheanacho, Vardy.

What these players have in common is that they were relative unknowns, cheap, but very good and very effective players.

They come from places like Algeria, Nigeria, Japan and Turkey, so I donā€™t think Leicesterā€™s proximity to certain motorways proved a big deal in the grand scheme of things. They are arriving in the UK from these far flung places with nothing but a bag of clothes to get started with.

Bournemouth, Burnley or Sheffield United could have picked them up if their scouting was as good.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Guest
HC Green":1gg1471o said:
jimsing":1gg1471o said:
Our data analysis was not fully up and running before the start of last season, so that cannot be blamed for the problems we subsequently had with the playing staff that we recruited

It is fully up and running now and should be able to give us the data analysis we need to assist with the recruitment of new players from here on in. I believe that it is already in use and has been in use for a considerable time in readiness for our Summer recruitment of players.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/april/ ... cruitment/

This article from April 2020 suggests it was fully up and running

From the same article, last para...

ā€œI must stress that most clubs, especially ones at the levels this club aspires to get to, are heavily involved in data analytics already. We are at the start of a journey, really, and weā€™re developing our model.ā€
 
Apr 20, 2008
4,166
682
Plymouth
Pottypilgrim":2untosii said:
Dan Ellard":2untosii said:
Plenty of teams that use it have had good and bad seasons. All I can say is, Sheridan despises it - and Wigan and Swindon fans will tell you how badly he was this year.

Surely our location is more of a reason to use it, not less? Because we're so isolated?

Not a very good example to use to support your opinion. Both Wigan and Swindon were absolutely skint when Sheridan joined them and I would suggest Pep himself wouldn't have been able to do anything with those clubs.
And yet when they had other managers in charge this season (Wigan after sacking him and Swindon either side), they did quite significantly better.
 

Graham Clark

šŸ† Callum Wright 23/24
āœ… Evergreen
šŸš‘ Steve Hooper
Nov 18, 2018
1,061
4,562
Bernie Bernbaum":1s78q81i said:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/16/unsung-barnsley-nurture-unlikely-premier-league-dream

Interesting article about Barnsley, particularly their reliance on data analysis.

An interesting read - an average of 83 long balls a game and defending from the front. Also the emphasis on free kicks and corner routines.

Not sure the long ball game correlates with Ryan Lowe's playing through the thirds but it was noticeable that we often performed better last season when we pressed from the front. As for dead ball routines only 8% of our goals were scored from such situations last season - the worst in the League. That HAS to improve. Sam Allardyce's teams have often scored more than 40% of their goals from dead ball situations.
 
Dec 30, 2020
1,733
2,605
Bernie Bernbaum":2a8qmyu6 said:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/16/unsung-barnsley-nurture-unlikely-premier-league-dream

Interesting article about Barnsley, particularly their reliance on data analysis.

In the playoffs, with the third lowest budget in the Championship!

Striking that the article references players from the US, Austria and Nigeria. Do we have the resources to look for signings beyond the UK?
 

Argylegames

Administrator
Staff member
šŸ† Callum Wright 23/24
āœ… Evergreen
Jade Berrow 23/24
šŸŽ« S.T. Donor šŸŽ«
āœØPasoti DonorāœØ
šŸŒŸSparksy MuralšŸŒŸ
Jun 12, 2006
7,742
1,302
69
Hampshire, UK
www.argylegames.org.uk
greenpilled":94l0hfw3 said:
Striking that the article references players from the US, Austria and Nigeria. Do we have the resources to look for signings beyond the UK?
Even if we did, could we afford them?
 
Mar 15, 2007
5,191
3,276
Plymouth
Bernie Bernbaum":34to9sjd said:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/16/unsung-barnsley-nurture-unlikely-premier-league-dream

Interesting article about Barnsley, particularly their reliance on data analysis.

Their opponents Swansea are another example, and they actually use the same consultants that Argyle have used/are using (Mrkt Insights). Mrkt insights have worked with teams in the MLS, Asia etc, so we may have resources to consider players outside the UK, but I guess that depends on our agreement with them.
 

Adam

Pasoti Designer
āœ… Evergreen
āœØPasoti DonorāœØ
šŸŒŸSparksy MuralšŸŒŸ
Apr 5, 2010
4,157
1
2,922
Nobby":28ug71uh said:
Bernie Bernbaum":28ug71uh said:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/16/unsung-barnsley-nurture-unlikely-premier-league-dream

Interesting article about Barnsley, particularly their reliance on data analysis.

Their opponents Swansea are another example, and they actually use the same consultants that Argyle have used/are using (Mrkt Insights). Mrkt insights have worked with teams in the MLS, Asia etc, so we may have resources to consider players outside the UK, but I guess that depends on our agreement with them.


I've always wanted Argyle to explore potential recruits from the MLS/ United States Development League or College Leagues too.

I'm not saying we'd find a finished article but with the amount of players over there desperate to land even a place(!) in the Draft and failing, there must some young hidden gems or would take a chance over here.
 
Apr 1, 2009
4,307
2,501
Argylegames":mtnn1r7y said:
greenpilled":mtnn1r7y said:
Striking that the article references players from the US, Austria and Nigeria. Do we have the resources to look for signings beyond the UK?
Even if we did, could we afford them?

The other obvious problem is work permits. So many players worldwide used to have some access to a European passport, but that doesn't help now. Quite rightly there should be limits on run of the mill footballers from overseas taking the jobs of British ones.
 

davie nine

R.I.P
Jan 23, 2015
7,785
347
77
Plympton
gaspargomez":58dk08rq said:
If every team uses data analysis then it provides no competitive advantage.
It could cause a considerable competitive disadvantage if we were in the minority that donā€™t use it.
 
Mar 23, 2008
7,332
2,510
cheshiregreen":2swyya2c said:
HC Green":2swyya2c said:
Lowe said: "Reevesy is a fantastic footballer, a lovely person, a great lad to have around but didn't suit my style."

Football or clothes?

If football why didnā€™t the data analysis and fantastic recruitment process pick that up?

Managers eh?

Reminds me of a case of a football manager who narrowed the width of his home playing surface.

He signed two players, let's call them Lionel and Gregg, who were recognised by most as wingers and then played a formation where wingers weren't employed.

It all ended very disappointingly, poor Gregg started just two league matches in his first season and one in his second.
Poor Lionel only started three league games in his two seasons too.

Guess this was another case where the players (plural in this case) didnā€™t suit the manager's style. :think:
:funny: :clap: