John Francis, Burnley, and THAT play-off.... | PASOTI

John Francis, Burnley, and THAT play-off....

GregFoxsmith

GregFoxsmith

Jul 18, 2020
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So today is the anniversary of that painful play off defeat to Burnley http://greensonscreen.co.uk/index.asp
Also infamous as a section of the home crowd abused Burnley striker John Francis with monkey chants (an incensed Francis then scored twice and goaded the crowd by making monkey gestures after the first goal)
JF still speaks openly about racism he endured during his career (Plymouth by no means the worst, I mean he was from Leeds for heaven sake) I have an opportunity of interviewing him for a podcast, and am genuinely interested in anyone’s recollections of that match and the incident
1 If there, were you aware what was happening? What was your reaction?
2 Is that the last time there was a significant incident involving racist abuse at HP? Or if not, how recently do you recall a similar example? (In other words, from what date can we say Argyle was “free” of that kind of behaviour (which of course was always a minority)
In my memory, the John Francis incident was the last, but also the first in several years- an unusual “throwback” to the 80s...am I right about that, or am i applying rose-tinted glasses forgetting how late this stuff went on?
Please post any memories below, or if you prefer to discuss privately please email me (in confidence) gregfoxsmith@msn.com

Thanks!

Greg
 
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During lockdown last year I watched the Watford semi final & was shocked at the abuse hurled at John Barnes, monkey chants throughout & it appeared to be coming from all over. I don't remember it at all at the game. Maybe it was so 'normal' that I never noticed it at the time.
I was gutted that Argyle lost that but after watching that I thought what goes round comes round.
 
Green 1886

Green 1886

Aug 4, 2011
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From memory it stemmed from the first leg where he clashed with Alan Nicholls right in front of where the Argyle fans where.

A fair bit of verbal between Nicholls and Francis lead to him getting booed for most of the match. That then carried over to the 2nd leg.

As you say, when he scored he made monkey gestures towards Nicholls / The Devonport end which just added fuel to the fire.
 
WoodsyGreen

WoodsyGreen

Jun 27, 2019
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Yes, Francis went in late on Nicholls, who had gone down low to claim the ball. They had a bit of a tussle which ended with Nicholls punching Francis in the arse :lol:

Francis seemed to find it funny but the massed ranks of the Green Army didn't see the humour in it and gave him pelters for the rest of the game.

Must admit I didn't hear any racist abuse either at Turf Moor or back at Home Park. I'm not saying Francis made it up but is it possible he mistook booing for monkey noises?

Maybe not. Far be it from me to dispute his version of events if he says he was racially abused.

There were racists at Home Park back in those days of course (still are probably), but I would never have described HP as a racist ground and never saw or heard any collective racism. Any incidents were usually isolated from one individual.
 
Vampires11

Vampires11

Mar 18, 2014
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Stop being naive, our own players get racially abused. Reuben Reid was called a "lazy black illegitimate" regularly, almost every match |I went to.
And if you study this site, regularly the scapegoat for poor performances is the coloured guys, Reuben, Kelvin Mellor etc etc etc.

I hear more racism in and around Plymouth than in the West Midlands
 
WoodsyGreen

WoodsyGreen

Jun 27, 2019
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Vampires11":3c1lu9a2 said:
Stop being naive, our own players get racially abused. Reuben Reid was called a "lazy black bar steward" regularly, almost every match |I went to.
And if you study this site, regularly the scapegoat for poor performances is the coloured guys, Reuben, Kelvin Mellor etc etc etc.

I hear more racism in and around Plymouth than in the West Midlands
Click to expand...

Well that's your experience, I was giving you mine. Doesn't make me naive.

And by the way, 'coloured' is not an acceptable term.
 
Ponty

Ponty

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Vampires11":e57mxsos said:
Stop being naive, our own players get racially abused. Reuben Reid was called a "lazy black bar steward" regularly, almost every match |I went to.
And if you study this site, regularly the scapegoat for poor performances is the coloured guys, Reuben, Kelvin Mellor etc etc etc.

I hear more racism in and around Plymouth than in the West Midlands
Click to expand...
So there's racism on here towards "coloured players"? Or are posters just debating because the player has had a bad game. Most players also get pelted on here, regardless of race, so I'd tend not to agree with you. We certainly wouldn't allow it if it was stand out racism on this site.

As pointed out previously "coloured" is not an acceptable term to use.
 
Dan Ellard

Dan Ellard

Apr 20, 2008
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Very much a minor point compared to the OP, but in an away match at Luton in I think 2015, a section of our support decided to start a "England, England" chant.

Clearly because of the higher than average BAME community that reside in Luton. No doubt those who were involved would claim "what's wrong with singing in support of our national team", but it's hell of a coincidence that I've never heard any chants like that at any other ground... (apart from when we play Cardiff, Swansea, Newport or Wrexham, which is obviously a whole different kettle of fish)
 
Daz

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Vampires11":2dl56jjv said:
Stop being naive, our own players get racially abused. Reuben Reid was called a "lazy black bar steward" regularly, almost every match |I went to.
And if you study this site, regularly the scapegoat for poor performances is the coloured guys, Reuben, Kelvin Mellor etc etc etc.

I hear more racism in and around Plymouth than in the West Midlands
Click to expand...

Wow! You should delete this post as it makes you look silly. As pointed out already your term for black players is not acceptable anymore and more importantly accusing Argyle fans of being racist because they criticise black players performances is disgraceful.

I have moderated on this site for over 10 years. Danny Mayor, Graham Carey, Mike Cooper, Tony Capaldi, Jon Beswetherick & Gary Sawyer have all been massively hammered on here more so than either of the players you mention. There are many many more examples too.

Claiming criticism as racism does nothing to help people that are genuinely discriminated against because of their skin colour.
 
Abbotts Ann Green

Abbotts Ann Green

Jul 18, 2011
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When I started going (mid 70s) the casual racism was just seen as normal - it was appalling. Then in the 80s the National Front were active at Home Park - I daresay others here can remember the “if they’re white” chant that was very common.

It wasn’t just us but it did seem to be the clubs where you didn’t see many black people in the population where it was worse. I remember chatting with Newcastle fans on a train across the Pennines in about 1978 or so, they were coming back from playing Man Utd I was on my way back to Newcastle from a typical defeat at Bury. I showed some of, the Newcastle fans my programme and in the team information bit it had a picture of the black player we had then, I think it was Tyrone James. They all told me we shouldn’t have black players if there were white players available.
 
rongreenblood

rongreenblood

Feb 21, 2012
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Yes,i was at that game against Burnley,and as disappointed as i was at the result i thought then when Francis scored his goals that he had the last laugh,and was a fitting way to silence the clearly racist chants from the argyle crowd, although it did not silence them!
I did not know about the first leg incident, re Nichols, however, i think Francis deserved his goals,he made our defence look poor.
 
Joe Totale

Joe Totale

Nov 18, 2011
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Dan Ellard":3b16aad7 said:
Very much a minor point compared to the OP, but in an away match at Luton in I think 2015, a section of our support decided to start a "England, England" chant.

Clearly because of the higher than average BAME community that reside in Luton. No doubt those who were involved would claim "what's wrong with singing in support of our national team", but it's hell of a coincidence that I've never heard any chants like that at any other ground... (apart from when we play Cardiff, Swansea, Newport or Wrexham, which is obviously a whole different kettle of fish)
Click to expand...

It seems to me that the TCE idiots target games such as Luton away to attend and this is when we get those kind of chants, likewise I recall this at Crewe away a few years ago as well.

As a BAME supporter who's been attending games since the 90's I've never heard anything racist said towards myself from a fellow Argyle fan. When I've ever heard anything racist said towards a player it's generally from a Burberry/Stone Island clad knuckle dragger. (I'm aware there's lots of decent people who also wear those brands of clothing!)
 
Quintrell Green

Quintrell Green

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All I can say, is that it was just as well Jack Leslie played for Argyle, when he did, and not in the more recent period of racial abuse in football stadia.
 
Pogleswoody

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Quintrell_Green":26mizxhr said:
All I can say, is that it was just as well Jack Leslie played for Argyle, when he did, and not in the more recent period of racial abuse in football stadia.
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I'm surprised he never signed for a West Midlands club they are just sooooo tolerant up there!! ;)

Kelvin Mellor racially abused for his performances?? That's a bit of a a stretch for me!! :think:

S'funny that Reuben Reid got criticised for sometimes being lazy and not putting a full shift in.
Can't you just remember the similar cries around HP directed at Dwight Marshall?? :think:
 
IJN

IJN

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Nov 29, 2012
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The very worst game I can remember was when Laurie Cunningham played for Orient v Argyle at Home Park. Monkey noises came from every corner of the ground from memory. However he absolutely took us apart, I think they won 4-1, and he received a standing ovation that game.

Luckily the vast majority of us have moved on and become educated to the fact that racism is not something any of us should tolerate.

I have been racist in the past, I'm sure of it, but the last twenty years have certainly opened my eyes. Anyone that treats someone different because of their skin truly wants their head looking at.

We've banned a few off here for it, and they will never be allowed back on. Although they tend to snipe at me on Facebook. :wave:

This site stands again racism and ALL the Mods are the same, if they see anything that is overtly racist, it gets taken off immediately and the person is banned sine die. There is no middle ground.
 
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