For the attention of AFT Members (merged)

Probably proving your point to a certain extent, but do you think many people care.

Some of the points you bring up were brought up by others many many times over a period of a few years.

Now you've been rejected you're now thinking the same. So forgive me if I, for one, think it's sour grapes.

It's my opinion that the AFT is unfit for purpose but others obviously don't agree.

BallboyEGS1958":28opotxe said:

24th November 2018 AFT Member 753

AGM – Argyle Fan Trust

Before the AGM starts, I would like to make the following statement and it really hurts me to do this, being a great believer in the AFT and what it was set up to do.

Following this meeting, it’s my intention to post the following on all the media sites related to our club PAFC

I am calling for a vote of no confidence from our membership in regards the present board and also that that the election process is aborted at this time to allow for an inspection on the membership’s records.

With regards the election, one of the AFT members who I will not name has posted on Facebook regarding membership of the AFT and other matters. This was taken down but not before several people were able to read it.

With regards the board, being a board member is a privilege to act on behalf of all your fellow members and not a launch pad to boost one’s ego (this does not apply to all board members)

For the past 3 years plus the board have been failing on all accounts.
With the departure of the backroom workers of Bob, Sally & Paul the whole structure of the Trust has gone to pieces.
How many members know how close to extinction we were and maybe still are.

Whilst I am fully aware that being a board member is volunteer and non-paying position, there is no excuse for not following the SD guidelines (which Are’s has been out of date since 2016)
We are a Trust so why didn’t they go out to the membership and ask for help (how many of the membership has had an email or letter requesting help)
How many members have had an email or letter regarding your views on some of the decisions they are making on our behalf, other than the very recent one concerning safe standing? (this being near the AGM to appear being pro-active)

The Trust needs to go back to the principles that it was set up to do (Work for the supporters and the well-being of our club).

I would also add that I put up for Board but was rejected because one of my nominees was supposedly not a member (He is) and this is not a witch hunt because of it. An appeal has been put in concerning this.

I would appreciate the views of fellow members and if you agree with my views (which I can extend on if required) please advise me of your membership number and name.
If I receive sufficient support the action, I have stated above will be actioned

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I remember you criticising Pasoti members for criticising the AFT in the past and yet here you are ...

Anyway..... what do you expect from certain members of the AFT Board over the last year or so.
The fans need an AFT but not under its current guise or with its current board (pre-election).

Why do you think that a Trust has no relevance, Ian? Genuine question.

Sorry...THE....Trust.

If that's me Tony (two Ian's above) I didn't say that. My comment was 'it's not fit for purpose'.

It's my opinion that there are people in the background who simply try to make mischief. Sally Snow and Richard Blight are two examples of what I mean, although I could easily add Willis, Chown and Lloyd (although he seems to have hit the mute button in the last few months to be fair to the man) as well, all obsessed about things like the alleged lack of planning permission for the changing rooms, open accounting and lack of parking etc.

Perhaps if the AFT really does represent the fans, I would suggest intervening in the problems with the standing fans in Block 14 would be more to the point, those sort of mundane things normal fans get upset about rather the seemingly spanner in the works stuff the AFT seem to get involved with.

The AFT was magnificent when it had to be, and would be again (I'm sure) if it had to be again, but all this recent nonsense has obviously turned people off.

I know there's been some good people involved with the AFT, really good people, but the likes of Blight and Ms Snow with their snidey comments on FreeChat does nothing to attract us fans back to becoming members again.

I asked around the people I know in Block 12 today and most laughed when I asked if they were attending the AFT meeting.

As a matter of interest Tony, do you know how many attended today?

I have no idea about attendance. Mid November is the start of the busy Christmas period for my business so Saturday evening work beckons I'm afraid so I wasn't there nor even at the match today. It was a miracle I even got the Saturday evening off for last years and I was the Chair.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly about making mischief. You said in another post when speaking about Natasha Brent that young people 'challenge things'. So why is it an issue when the Trust does just that?

I don't care about things like planning permission (although if the Club haven't got it then why not - I would have to if I wanted a conservatory) but as I said, I don't really care about that.

I DO care about open accounting - if I'm investing my money into an entity like PAFC my whole life then I want to know what is happening with it. Don't see an issue with that.

I really don't care about standard parking and at the time it was something I didn't think we should have focused on - but you go with the majority decision, so as Chair - you support it. At Argyle, we have the BEST parking facilities of any other Club - bar NONE (two big massive FREE car parks) though I did understand the concerns with disabled parking - that HAS to be a priority.

The Trust had already set the ball rolling with the ACV when I joined. I'm the one who then finalised, researched and submitted the final application. THAT is the sort of thing a Trust does. It's future safety for the Club - no matter who is in charge - I stand 100% behind it. I love, though, how the Herald had gotten hold of the fact that the application had been successful and put it online before we even knew of the decision or I had the confirmation letter in my hand. See...too much of this cloak and dagger crap goes on.

I also supported the challenge to the hybrid application. That would have been the case whether it was James Brent, Mahatma Ghandi or Donald Trump. Take JB away from it - it was nothing personal yet you seemed to think someone had 'put me up to it' I think were your words.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I don't get put up to anything. I was there to do a job and I did it. I wasn't there to sugar coat anything or blow smoke up anyone's backside and I certainly wasn't there to be a pain in the ass but nor was I worried if I upset someone. The whole time I was on the Board, in either Secretary or Chairman roles, I did everything by the book and protocol according to the constitution set down. Were mistakes made sometimes? Of course.

On the Trust....you can NEVER do right. Even when the Trust paid to have the façade redecorated (people forget about that one - very short memories) - we were heroes then, but vilified by others. Then when you do something else, the two 'sides' flip the other way. The AFT can't win. And a lot of what happened with the tendering process for that was very underhand by the way...and as it turned out...of very poor quality workmanship, but that's by the by now.

So sometimes not everyone else is completely innocent - but of course - blame the Trust.

You're a difficult man to read, IJN. I read on another thread that you trust Mr. Foale implicitly. He's a fine gent and a scholar- yet above you say the Trust is not fit for purpose.

Then in another thread you said thank god I'm not the Chair anymore. More than entitled to your opinion but I must have done something really bad to have rattled you.

As for Richard, Sally, Tim, John, et al, just because people don't agree with you, Ian, doesn't make them troublemakers. People will always challenge things if they feel something is not right - that's the correct way for things to be. Best way to answer any 'dissenters' is to prove them wrong. No proof, they'll carry on. As well they should.

Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong, but I'll still say what I think needs to be said.

I'll finish with this, anything I ever did while working on the Trust was discussed, voted, agreed, passed as motions for action. It was never anything personal. My dealings with JB were always respectful, polite and courteous. I'm really am sorry if he felt any of it was personal but it wasn't. As I said, I was acting as I should as were the rest of the board, but I maintain again I was not there to be all happy happy joy joy.

Perhaps one day I'll join the Board again but I can assure anyone, it's not always fun, it can be very stressful at times, but the guys and gals on that Board do their utmost best to get it right. Chairmen, owners, players come and go.....we're the one's who'll always - for our sins- still be here when the smoke clears.

This may prove a point to one side or the other ... but no one cares about all these personal little squabbles.

I could ask half the people I go to games with and they’d say ‘what’s the AFT?’

Andy_S":1nat25zw said:

I DO care about open accounting - if I'm investing my money into an entity like PAFC my whole life then I want to know what is happening with it.

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"Investing"? Really? How often do you go to Argyle? Home games only...once a week?

So, if you go to the movies once a week, are you "investing" in Reel, or Vue? Do you want to know what's happening with the money you are paying them?

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I go to Greggs every Tuesday for a sneaky pie. They’d better disclose all their accounts at once!

You seem to be confusing the Trust and certain Chairmen Tony.

I don’t think the Trust is ‘fit for purpose’ as I have explained because of certain people in and around it, most of which I’ve named above.

The only Chairman that I can think of that wasn’t was Symons, and I know of at least four ex Chairman of the AFT that have agreed with me in private about that individual.

Your comment about ‘investing’ made me smile I must admit. It’s very ‘important’ isn’t it? Invest????? Get over yourself, you go to matches like me, and ever other Tom, Dick and Harriet.

I’ve invested in the Green Taverners, do I want to know about their bilusinees profile? Do I care about who’s on their Board? Do I care about their bank account? No, not a bit of it, I trust them to do what they’ve promised. Easy really isn’t it?

Some people need to lighten up, not take themselves so seriously and they really, really, really need to understand they don’t speak on behalf of us fans. Believe it or not, we can make up own minds about the club. Most of us moan and mank, about them with our close circle and leave it that. Perhaps you guys should just do that! That would be less stressful for you, you never know it could be the thought process of some that the AFT represent our every wish and thought that causes the problem in the first place.

It’s like witnessing the aftermath of a bitter divorce

dazzy3000":3ke8cxzh said:

Andy_S":3ke8cxzh said:

I DO care about open accounting - if I'm investing my money into an entity like PAFC my whole life then I want to know what is happening with it.

Click to expand...

"Investing"? Really? How often do you go to Argyle? Home games only...once a week?

So, if you go to the movies once a week, are you "investing" in Reel, or Vue? Do you want to know what's happening with the money you are paying them?

Click to expand...

I go to Greggs every Tuesday for a sneaky pie. They’d better disclose all their accounts at once!

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Are Greggs or Vue businesses that you would literally pick up a bucket and start collecting for if they were in threat of administration? Would yourself and the blokes in the hi-viz vests stood in front of you start attending town hall meetings to find any solution going other than the option of having to find your pies and pastries somewhere else?

It's a stupid point to try and imply Plymouth Argyle is a run of the mill entertainment business and nothing else.