Argyle's new style of play

NickSS · Oct 30, 2019

A nice read for those who want to pass some time this evening or tomorrow morning. I'm sure many of you have noticed, but Argyle's style of play has altered quite significantly in the past month. Possession play has been dropped in favour of a territorial style (a nice homage to England's run to the RWC final?!)

Anyhow, a little (maybe a bit more than little) read on what has changed, what impact it is making and whether it is going to be successful. Hope you enjoy! :thumbup:

From Lowe-ball to long-ball: territory, not possession, is king

Argyle started the season playing a possession-based style, but when results tailed off in September Lowe tried something new. Forsaking possession, he looked to play a territorial style. That style has now lasted eight consecutive matches and shows no sign of being dropped any time soon.

pilgrimB173 · Oct 31, 2019

I am surprised that no one seems to have mentioned the apparent lack of watering the pitch before and during the 4-0 Orient win, a night on which I really noticed a change to long passes forward. This stopped the ball skipping on out of reach of our forwards.

NickSS · Oct 31, 2019

pilgrimB173":1suwcpus said:
I am surprised that no one seems to have mentioned the apparent lack of watering the pitch before and during the 4-0 Orient win, a night on which I really noticed a change to long passes forward. This stopped the ball skipping on out of reach of our forwards.

Oh really? Not being able to get to HP very often that's the sort of detail I wouldn't know about. Interesting that!

I haven't come to much of a conclusion about the long ball style yet. My main take is that the passing style is best, but with the right players in the team.

However, I want to wait and see how we do in this four-game stretch we're currently in (Exeter A, Grimsby H, Forst Green A, Bradford H). Pick up significant points and surely we're set to continue playing this way, but drop too many and I imagine we'll revert to possession.

Lesley Somerville · Oct 31, 2019

As always an excellent and well considered analysis. I think in the end we just don't quite have the right players to implement either system to full effect. For example, Cooper can be very good at crosses as we've seen but he's also easy to muscle off the ball so can't keep possession when needed. Sarce is a powerful runner but his ball control lets him down at crucial times. Riley is not a good crosser. So we're almost there but keep just missing the level of performance needed to dominate. The same goes for lots of other teams of course, which is why we win games. But teams like Exeter are more consistently strong, ruthless and able to dominate games. So it's going to be interesting to see what Lowe can get out of his existing squad, and let's hope those injured are fit soon. And then add a couple in the transfer window.

NickSS · Oct 31, 2019

Lesley Somerville":33t132ee said:
As always an excellent and well considered analysis. I think in the end we just don't quite have the right players to implement either system to full effect. For example, Cooper can be very good at crosses as we've seen but he's also easy to muscle off the ball so can't keep possession when needed. Sarce is a powerful runner but his ball control lets him down at crucial times. Riley is not a good crosser. So we're almost there but keep just missing the level of performance needed to dominate. The same goes for lots of other teams of course, which is why we win games. But teams like Exeter are more consistently strong, ruthless and able to dominate games. So it's going to be interesting to see what Lowe can get out of his existing squad, and let's hope those injured are fit soon. And then add a couple in the transfer window.

Thanks as always Lesley! For me, Cooper is a perfect RWB. Look at how they used Nicky Adams last season - lots of deep crosses from the right, which is exactly what Cooper is best at. Pair him up with Baxter in RCM, Edwards sweeping up behind and that's our best midfield in the possession style. (M'n'M obviously on the left).

I am genuinely intrigued to hear what other people think about the territorial style. Lots of teams have tried to play their way out of League Two and failed. Portsmouth and Luton both spent a lot of time and money trying that, so maybe it is just best to go for a more rugged, effective style?

Metal Green Mickey · Oct 31, 2019

This longer style of play has been more noticeable since Swindon.

I think Postey picked up on it too.

However, if you think back to the last two games we still playing it short too.

At Exeter, l remember a couple of times Argyle playing it short into Edwards before the goal. I thought that’s strange didn’t see that as much in last two homes matches. Then Josh Grant played that suicidal ball to the midfield and Exeter sprung us.

Then l looked at the highlights of the Chelsea game. Yet again, we played short balls to team mates and got sprung on the counter.

We might be playing it at times longer but we still getting caught out defensively with passes around the back.

As for the RWB, it needs changing but Lowe keeps playing Riley and to be honest what you need is energy in that position. Cooper’s better games have been on the left side of the team, than the right.

To be honest we are trying to play an attacking style of play without having the forwards. We get out muscled upfront by the physical CB’s in this league. Countless times the ball isn’t being held up.

Personally, our defenders are the weakest area in our squad. So why have 3 of them and a non functioning RWB. I’d change to a back four. Put 3 in the midfield who two of them being your best passers in the squad and press with 3 up front. Put Joel Grant back to wing where he won’t get out muscled and can use his trickery. Then you have a better balanced team and with 3 in centre midfield with better width options you should be a better balanced team.

I said Argyle would struggle until we change the system or some of the personnel. It doesn’t look like the system we play is changing at this moment so we will continue to struggle until the transfer window l believe as quite simply we can’t defend for 90 mins properly without giving easy chances to score away, and upfront we look lightweight without the physicality you need in this league. On top of this if you are lightweight on set pieces both defensively and offensively you have a massive issue to fix in league two because to get out of this league you at least need to be able to defend them.

Someone said last week, after Josh Grant mistake, at least we have Wootton to come back for next league game. I think that says it all even if it was a tongue in cheek comment. Replacing one error prone defender with another.

davie nine · Oct 31, 2019

I always find your articles interesting, Nick.
I have only just read this article.
However, it has left me a little confused.
One of the Senior Green members had, obviously, read your article and asked our 2 guests today, Joe Riley and Niall Canavan, about the change in style of play.
They both seemed surprised at the suggestion that there has been a change in style as they said that Ryan Lowe’s positive attacking strategy has not changed since he was appointed.
I agree that there seems to have been more emphasis on the longer ball and have assumed that this was because opponents have been told to stay more advanced to press our defenders when they are receiving a short pass from the goalkeeper.

NickSS · Oct 31, 2019

davie nine":2bfo4til said:
I always find your articles interesting, Nick.
I have only just read this article.
However, it has left me a little confused.
One of the Senior Green members had, obviously, read your article and asked our 2 guests today, Joe Riley and Niall Canavan, about the change in style of play.
They both seemed surprised at the suggestion that there has been a change in style as they said that Ryan Lowe’s positive attacking strategy has not changed since he was appointed.
I agree that there seems to have been more emphasis on the longer ball and have assumed that this was because opponents have been told to stay more advanced to press our defenders when they are receiving a short pass from the goalkeeper.

Now THAT is really interesting. Because something like that doesn't just change so dramatically, starting from a single point and happening so consistently, without managerial intervention. You need some kind of guidance, top-down instructions.

I would love to hear more of what they said. And, to be fair, the strategy still seems to be very offensive, just not quite as possession-based, so it could have been the way the question was framed? I was quite careful to call it territorial rather "hoof-ball", because there is a difference. It's a more strategic use of long passes rather than just Guy Branston-ing it down-field.

I'm very confident that this isn't a result of increased pressure on the centre-backs (at least not in the majority of cases), because the majority of these long passes are taking place under little pressure with other passing options available.

Fascinating anyway, thanks for sharing!

davie nine · Oct 31, 2019

NickSS":14fpb2j6 said:
davie nine":14fpb2j6 said:

I always find your articles interesting, Nick.
I have only just read this article.
However, it has left me a little confused.
One of the Senior Green members had, obviously, read your article and asked our 2 guests today, Joe Riley and Niall Canavan, about the change in style of play.
They both seemed surprised at the suggestion that there has been a change in style as they said that Ryan Lowe’s positive attacking strategy has not changed since he was appointed.
I agree that there seems to have been more emphasis on the longer ball and have assumed that this was because opponents have been told to stay more advanced to press our defenders when they are receiving a short pass from the goalkeeper.

Click to expand...

Now THAT is really interesting. Because something like that doesn't just change so dramatically, starting from a single point and happening so consistently, without managerial intervention. You need some kind of guidance, top-down instructions.

I would love to hear more of what they said. And, to be fair, the strategy still seems to be very offensive, just not quite as possession-based, so it could have been the way the question was framed? I was quite careful to call it territorial rather "hoof-ball", because there is a difference. It's a more strategic use of long passes rather than just Guy Branston-ing it down-field.

I'm very confident that this isn't a result of increased pressure on the centre-backs (at least not in the majority of cases), because the majority of these long passes are taking place under little pressure with other passing options available.

Fascinating anyway, thanks for sharing!

Joe and Niall didn’t say a lot more than I mentioned above.
It didn’t develop into a prolonged, detailed discussion.
The questioner did say that he had read it on Pasoti so, I am sure it must have been your article he was referring to.

NickSS · Oct 31, 2019

davie nine":3174fb42 said:
NickSS":3174fb42 said:

davie nine":3174fb42 said:

I always find your articles interesting, Nick.
I have only just read this article.
However, it has left me a little confused.
One of the Senior Green members had, obviously, read your article and asked our 2 guests today, Joe Riley and Niall Canavan, about the change in style of play.
They both seemed surprised at the suggestion that there has been a change in style as they said that Ryan Lowe’s positive attacking strategy has not changed since he was appointed.
I agree that there seems to have been more emphasis on the longer ball and have assumed that this was because opponents have been told to stay more advanced to press our defenders when they are receiving a short pass from the goalkeeper.

Click to expand...

Now THAT is really interesting. Because something like that doesn't just change so dramatically, starting from a single point and happening so consistently, without managerial intervention. You need some kind of guidance, top-down instructions.

I would love to hear more of what they said. And, to be fair, the strategy still seems to be very offensive, just not quite as possession-based, so it could have been the way the question was framed? I was quite careful to call it territorial rather "hoof-ball", because there is a difference. It's a more strategic use of long passes rather than just Guy Branston-ing it down-field.

I'm very confident that this isn't a result of increased pressure on the centre-backs (at least not in the majority of cases), because the majority of these long passes are taking place under little pressure with other passing options available.

Fascinating anyway, thanks for sharing!

Click to expand...

Joe and Niall didn’t say a lot more than I mentioned above.
It didn’t develop into a prolonged, detailed discussion.
The questioner did say that he had read it on Pasoti so, I am sure it must have been your article he was referring to.

Possibly. Still, really interesting. Makes me wish I could discuss tactics with Lowe, if only to get a better understanding of what he was thinking and what motivated his decisions. Who knows, maybe he'll be on the podcast one day? Even if that is after his time managing Argyle.

PL2 3DQ · Oct 31, 2019

For some reason the longer pass style of play wasn't used so much at Exeter, as highlighted when Josh Grant dithered and passed short to Edwards which led to the penalty rather than hitting it long.

For the recent two home wins Carlisle and Leyton Orient each had more possession than Argyle.
To be fair the longer style of passing rather than the possession style has been noticed by Pasoti users and mentioned on the brief Synopsis threads, at least since the Swindon league game.

It also depends on what strikers are available, for example Taylor is not the type to run the channels whereas Rudden and Joel Grant have done well in the new system - both are mobile, energetic and have also scored goals.

NickSS · Nov 1, 2019

For some reason the longer pass style of play wasn't used so much at Exeter, as highlighted when Josh Grant dithered and passed short to Edwards which led to the penalty rather than hitting it long.

Actually, we used the longer style as much at Exeter as we have in general since Mansfield. 77 attempted long passes is the second-most all season, level with Orient and one behind Carlisle (78), which was the most in a single game. 21% of all attempted passes were long passes, which is actually the third-highest all season behind Mansfield and Crewe.

For the centre-backs and Palmer, 28% of their attempted passes were long passes, similar to the 29% against Carlisle, but unlike the 20% against Crawley, where we played out of the back a lot more, and nowhere near the 14% against the likes of Oldham. In fact, Josh Grant's pass out was one of the few times we actually tried to play out, instead of just throwing it downfield.

On the possession front, the only reason Exeter didn't have a higher share of possession than us was that they backed off a lot in the second-half once they had a two (and then three) goal lead and were happy to play on the counter. You can see this in the performance, and that we went from 43% of possession in the first half to 58% in the second. Overall, it was only 51% overall anyway, compared to 48% against Carlisle for example.

Yeah, I had noticed that some people on PASOTI were talking about it - Finley mentioned it in one of his match reports, no? - and some on Twitter etc. Not been hard to notice, has it! Pretty stark change.

It also depends on what strikers are available, for example Taylor is not the type to run the channels whereas Rudden and Joel Grant have done well in the new system - both are mobile, energetic and have also scored goals.

Not sure if you're suggesting the style change was related to Taylor being absent, but if so I'm not sure I agree. He was available for Mansfield, Scunthorpe, Swindon (cup) and Exeter (and presumably Chelsea) but only started one (Scunthorpe) because of Cooper's injury and other strikers (Rudden not 100%, Moore, Telford) being unavailable.

I think it's been a tactical choice made by Lowe and his management team. But, that's just my thought. All I'm certain of is that it has happened, but I don't know why it has happened (injuries, the fact we hammered Swindon in the cup playing that way and he wanted to keep the same style, or a tactical choice), or whether or not it will work in the long term.

Spoke to Bury me in Exile about it and he seems pretty certain that Bury never went that way last year, so could be part of a tactical evolution on Lowe's part? The first time he's tried something new?

Argyle's new style of play

Site Owner