Safe Standing | PASOTI
  • Welcome to PASOTI. Sponsored by Lang & Potter

Safe Standing

jerryatricjanner

✅ Evergreen
Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Apr 22, 2006
10,387
4,656
The club said recently that Bobby's garden would be a safe standing area should we be allowed it. I can't see them converting it for the sake of it though and we will probably have to wsit until attendances warrant it.
 

up the line

🚑 Steve Hooper
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Mar 7, 2010
7,575
3,802
Manchester
Clearly there is a need for a large safe standing area in the centre of the Devonport End. The culture of support in that area is not going to change, even if a throwaway segment of rail seats is hidden away in the corner of the ground.
If Wolves and Spurs can move to install rail seats whilst Premier league clubs then I would hope Argyle, who have rubbed standing fans up the wrong way in recent times, can move to build bridges quickly.
Ironically that whole flash point seems to have simmered down since a safety certificate has been issued for the Mayflower with the pre-match warnings disappearing.
I recently noticed Shrewsbury had installed safe standing across the back 5 or 6 rows of their home end. It worked really well from what I could see, with no lines of sight disturbed by standing fans. I would be tempted to go further if I was a decision maker at home park and convert the upper 50% of the Devonport End to rail seating based on the number of supporters who stand in that area.
I also don't think the club should wait for increased attendances. If rail seating is safer for sections of the crowd that prefer standing then its safer, end of discussion, regardless of whether the rest of the ground is full or not.
I say all the above as someone who now prefers to mostly remain seated at Home Park
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chip green

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,480
1,419
Plymouth
up_the_line":2ghpw0bt said:
Clearly there is a need for a large safe standing area in the centre of the Devonport End. The culture of support in that area is not going to change, even if a throwaway segment of rail seats is hidden away in the corner of the ground.
If Wolves and Spurs can move to install rail seats whilst Premier league clubs then I would hope Argyle, who have rubbed standing fans up the wrong way in recent times, can move to build bridges quickly.
Ironically that whole flash point seems to have simmered down since a safety certificate has been issued for the Mayflower with the pre-match warnings disappearing.
I recently noticed Shrewsbury had installed safe standing across the back 5 or 6 rows of their home end. It worked really well from what I could see, with no lines of sight disturbed by standing fans. I would be tempted to go further if I was a decision maker at home park and convert the upper 50% of the Devonport End to rail seating based on the number of supporters who stand in that area.
I also don't think the club should wait for increased attendances. If rail seating is safer for sections of the crowd that prefer standing then its safer, end of discussion, regardless of whether the rest of the ground is full or not.
I say all the above as someone who now prefers to mostly remain seated at Home Park

Adding rails to current seating is allowed under current legislation but it has to be one person per seat which might is difficult to manage because supporters will try come from elsewhere to be with their mates. That then means the area is not as safe as intended.

Where standing is happening already it has to be safer than current arrangements. However different local authorities are likely to have different views on supporters constantly standing before issuing approval.
 
Feb 8, 2005
4,273
2,369
The proposed changes would apply to the Premiership and the Championship ONLY.

Hence, where would that leave Argyle, even if we do get promoted this year.

We would be penalised and unable to have safe standing but play games against some clubs that would be able to have standing (those promoted from below who had never been in the Championship) and those that had safe standing (those clubs relegated from the Championship).

In other words we would remain as an all seater stadium, we would be prevented from having safe standing, but have the indignity of travelling to other clubs who would be allowed standing in their stadia.

Is that right I ask?
 
Aug 5, 2015
3,384
736
I think the club is between a rock and a hard place here. It does make sense to make much of the Devonport a safe standing area and apparently the club has intentions to introduce safe standing in the Bobby’s Garden area. The problem is that probably won’t be right for a large number of people who see it as their inalienable right to stand when and where they please no matter what the club or anyone else thinks. I have no axe to grind here as I spent the best part of 20 years standing at Home Park.
 
Aug 30, 2006
1,732
528
Sheffield
Can’t believe some people on here are still naive enough to think that fairness is a criteria for the people who make these decisions.
Argyle suffered for years because they were obliged to close the Mayflower terrace as we had been in the Championship for a certain time. We were relegated and had to keep it closed despite going to clubs like Morecambe, Burton- at least they were new - but we also put up with the indignity of standing on crap away ends like those at Accrington and St James’ Park ffs!!
 

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,480
1,419
Plymouth
bringonthemilkman":3ioyc8rq said:
Can’t believe some people on here are still naive enough to think that fairness is a criteria for the people who make these decisions.
Argyle suffered for years because they were obliged to close the Mayflower terrace as we had been in the Championship for a certain time. We were relegated and had to keep it closed despite going to clubs like Morecambe, Burton- at least they were new - but we also put up with the indignity of standing on crap away ends like those at Accrington and St James’ Park ffs!!

The same rules currently apply to ALL clubs. You must be all seater after three consecutive years in the second tier.
 

up the line

🚑 Steve Hooper
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Mar 7, 2010
7,575
3,802
Manchester
To my mind it would be nonsensical to install rail seating in Bobby's Garden when there is a clear need for it at the back of the Devonport End.
The standing contingent in the Devonport End are not going to move so the club will end up with another battle trying to move them on to a sparsely populated part of the ground without their usual view of the match.
But then it seems totally counterintuitive so I fully expect that's what will happen
 

John Cooper

🏆 Callum Wright 23/24
Cream First
Jade Berrow 23/24
🎫 S.T. Donor 🎫
Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
✨Pasoti Donor✨
Feb 20, 2011
3,176
654
Peverell
jimsing":xvq5lkyx said:
The proposed changes would apply to the Premiership and the Championship ONLY.

Hence, where would that leave Argyle, even if we do get promoted this year.

We would be penalised and unable to have safe standing but play games against some clubs that would be able to have standing (those promoted from below who had never been in the Championship) and those that had safe standing (those clubs relegated from the Championship).

In other words we would remain as an all seater stadium, we would be prevented from having safe standing, but have the indignity of travelling to other clubs who would be allowed standing in their stadia.

Is that right I ask?

Quote from a representative at FSA:-

"Along with the FSA CEO I met with the Dept for Culture, Media and Sport last month, and they assured us that there were no intentions to amend the current legislation to remove current, legal terracing in L1/L2. Furthermore, any changes in legislation to allow standing in the PL would be reflected throughout the leagues, so long as clubs could meet the requirements as defined by the Govt (or local safety advisory groups). Therefore a club in L1/L2 who was all seater would be able to install forms of standing, so long as all stakeholders (club, fans, local safety advisory groups) agreed and the requirements were met. Of course we don't know the exact detail of those requirements, as the Sports Ground Safety Authority have an on-going review of evidence, but we imagine we'd hear more about that - and hopefully a trial following that at a club - soon."

So it would seem all divisions could have safe standing (not just the Prem and championship) - if they jumped through the right hoops.
 

Lundan Cabbie

⚪️ Pasoti Visitor ⚪️
Sep 3, 2008
4,480
1,419
Plymouth
bringonthemilkman":3w25p7fe said:
I wasn’t saying that the rules had changed just highlighting the iniquity of the rules for clubs in the same division

Is it unfair? The only reason that 3rd & 4th tier clubs were given this concession was because of the cost of going all seated The change in the law initially included all League clubs but it was recognised that many would not be able to afford it and could consequently lead to many clubs folding and therefore this compromise was drawn up.

Everyone below The Championship (as is now) were given the SAME concession and that included Argyle. Clubs like Exeter haven't been let off because the current legislation still demands that they go all seated when their concession expires.
 

IJN

Site Owner
Nov 29, 2012
9,171
22,677
So as an example then Paul, when will ECFC have to get rid of their "Big" Bank and install seats?