[Daz]

Tiverton's about his level based on what I saw of him. Just another in a long line of apparently 'promising' youth team strikers who failed to make the step up. And please don't play the 'he was never given a chance' card. He was and he simply failed to impress. He's been very lucky to stay on the books for so long IMO.

I don't see why someone would post something like this. He's probably disappointed enough without being slated by some keyboard professional footballer. Good luck to him in whatever he chooses to do.

Sorry to upset you, but I thought this was an opinions based forum? its a tough world out there and this just happens to be my opinion as a watcher of football. I respect anyone's right to disagree of course but there's no need to get insulting thank you. Good luck to him now he's moving on, yes, but why paint a rosy picture of his time at Argyle when that just doesn't reflect the reality.

You didn’t upset mate. I think it just tells a lot about someone’s character when you kick them when they’re down.

His time at Argyle was probably far better than yours or mine.

To be fair, he didn't exactly stop him in the street and shout it in his face. This is a fans messageboard and all opinions on our players are surely equally valid aren't they?

[Daz]

Of course they are, that’s why I can comment on other fans opinions. Is that allowed?

I’d be surprised if AF didn’t have a look or was told about what was said about him on here. I just don’t see the need to be so damning on a player that always gave 100% even if he didn’t quite make it.

[quote="MarkMatthews"

It probably felt like the world was against them, in reality it was the previous two managers and 40% of our fan base.[/quote)

Sorry this is nonsense, both the previous managers gave him a professional contact and Adams played him , both had opportunities to release him, sometimes things just don’t work out or you’re just not good enough, trying to blame someone who has provided the opportunity in first place just doesn’t add up.

What exact opportunities did he have. Whenever he played under Adams he would be played upfront on his own and that is not his game. A prime example of that was against Chelsea, where he played most of the match on his own and Argyll were losing 2-0. Adams brought on a big striker and Fletcher scored twice, he actually scored a hat trick that night with his penalty take. Despite all that the following game he back on the bench playing his bit part role. Adams was so negative...

What exact opportunities did he have. Whenever he played under Adams he would be played upfront on his own and that is not his game. A prime example of that was against Chelsea, where he played most of the match on his own and Argyll were losing 2-0. Adams brought on a big striker and Fletcher scored twice, he actually scored a hat trick that night with his penalty take. Despite all that the following game he back on the bench playing his bit part role. Adams was so negative...

I think the idea that playing a striker ia way that doesn't suit his style is rather overblown.

Being played out of position I get.

However, if you are picked in your preferred position then you have to be flexible and fit in with the way the rest of the team plays to best effect. If you can't adapt then not only do you only have one string to your bow, but you make it easy for oppositions to minimise your chances and impact.

If I was a striker I would like accurate, even pinpoint accuracy to my feet, preferably with a medium strength pass while I lurk onside but in front of an almost unguarded goal due to goalkeeper and defenders being fixed by the quality of the pass. Give me that and I would score a few.

I am not saying AF was like that. I am simply saying that better players can and do adapt to circumstances.

Tiverton's about his level based on what I saw of him. Just another in a long line of apparently 'promising' youth team strikers who failed to make the step up. And please don't play the 'he was never given a chance' card. He was and he simply failed to impress. He's been very lucky to stay on the books for so long IMO.

I don't see why someone would post something like this. He's probably disappointed enough without being slated by some keyboard professional footballer. Good luck to him in whatever he chooses to do.

Sorry to upset you, but I thought this was an opinions based forum? its a tough world out there and this just happens to be my opinion as a watcher of football. I respect anyone's right to disagree of course but there's no need to get insulting thank you. Good luck to him now he's moving on, yes, but why paint a rosy picture of his time at Argyle when that just doesn't reflect the reality.

You didn’t upset mate. I think it just tells a lot about someone’s character when you kick them when they’re down.

His time at Argyle was probably far better than yours or mine.

Firstly I'm not your mate and secondly you know absolutely jack about my character, especially based on one honest opinion of a player's ability that was hardly delivering a body blow. Rather than having a go at me how about you defend AF's corner by presenting some evidence to demonstrate that he is in fact better than I perceive.

Who knows what home grown talent we might have had in the team if Lowe had overseen the periods Sheridan and Adams did, I personally expect it would be a lot more.

It's interesting that you make the point above how Adams/Sheridan didn't care about home grown talent and Lowe does, as this is how many appearances each manager gave to players aged 23 and under who came through our youth team:

12/13 (half-season) 25
13/14: 132
14/15: 83
15/16: 83
16/17: 30
17/18: 20
18/19: 32
19/20 (not complete season) : 35

Average per season for each manager:

Sheridan: 96
Adams: 41
Lowe: 42

Interesting...

(Mods, feel free to rename my username to "Ridiculous Stats Man" or whatever )

Who knows what home grown talent we might have had in the team if Lowe had overseen the periods Sheridan and Adams did, I personally expect it would be a lot more.

It's interesting that you make the point above how Adams/Sheridan didn't care about home grown talent and Lowe does, as this is how many appearances each manager gave to players aged 23 and under who came through our youth team:

12/13 (half-season) 25
13/14: 132
14/15: 83
15/16: 83
16/17: 30
17/18: 20
18/19: 32
19/20 (not complete season) : 35

Average per season for each manager:

Sheridan: 96
Adams: 41
Lowe: 42

Interesting...

(Mods, feel free to rename my username to "Ridiculous Stats Man" or whatever )

Another thought maybe that the current manager is benefiting from all the work Adams did in improving the youth and reserve set up during his time here. Just a couple things such as entering the Central League and the Premier League Cup.

[Daz]

Tiverton's about his level based on what I saw of him. Just another in a long line of apparently 'promising' youth team strikers who failed to make the step up. And please don't play the 'he was never given a chance' card. He was and he simply failed to impress. He's been very lucky to stay on the books for so long IMO.

I don't see why someone would post something like this. He's probably disappointed enough without being slated by some keyboard professional footballer. Good luck to him in whatever he chooses to do.

Sorry to upset you, but I thought this was an opinions based forum? its a tough world out there and this just happens to be my opinion as a watcher of football. I respect anyone's right to disagree of course but there's no need to get insulting thank you. Good luck to him now he's moving on, yes, but why paint a rosy picture of his time at Argyle when that just doesn't reflect the reality.

You didn’t upset mate. I think it just tells a lot about someone’s character when you kick them when they’re down.

His time at Argyle was probably far better than yours or mine.

Firstly I'm not your mate and secondly you know absolutely jack about my character, especially based on one honest opinion of a player's ability that was hardly delivering a body blow. Rather than having a go at me how about you defend AF's corner by presenting some evidence to demonstrate that he is in fact better than I perceive.

Ok Mr Angry. Keep shouting at clouds.

Without throwing the ‘wasn’t given a chance card‘ I wasn’t convinced myself on whether he’d make it or not. My whole point is there is no need to kick him when he’s down like you did in your first post.

[quote="MarkMatthews"

It probably felt like the world was against them, in reality it was the previous two managers and 40% of our fan base.[/quote)

Sorry this is nonsense, both the previous managers gave him a professional contact and Adams played him , both had opportunities to release him, sometimes things just don’t work out or you’re just not good enough, trying to blame someone who has provided the opportunity in first place just doesn’t add up.

What exact opportunities did he have. Whenever he played under Adams he would be played upfront on his own and that is not his game. A prime example of that was against Chelsea, where he played most of the match on his own and Argyll were losing 2-0. Adams brought on a big striker and Fletcher scored twice, he actually scored a hat trick that night with his penalty take. Despite all that the following game he back on the bench playing his bit part role. Adams was so negative...

At the end of the day PAFC's first team in League One shouldn't be moulded to suit the needs of an 18 year old striker who several years on is probably just about good enough to play for Tiverton Town.

Especially when the likes of Carey, Sarcevic or Ness would have needed to be dropped to make Fletcher feel a bit more comfortable up front.

The manager is paid to decide the tactics and despite the criticism he faced on here, the football under Adams could be very entertaining and successful.

Fletcher might have thrived under Lowe, but then Jamille Matt, and Ryan Brunt, and Ryan Taylor, and Graham Carey, and Ruben Lameiras might not have thrived, in having to play in altered positions, or dropped even, to suit the needs of Alex Fletcher. Sounds a bit barmy to me.

Who knows what home grown talent we might have had in the team if Lowe had overseen the periods Sheridan and Adams did, I personally expect it would be a lot more.

It's interesting that you make the point above how Adams/Sheridan didn't care about home grown talent and Lowe does, as this is how many appearances each manager gave to players aged 23 and under who came through our youth team:

12/13 (half-season) 25
13/14: 132
14/15: 83
15/16: 83
16/17: 30
17/18: 20
18/19: 32
19/20 (not complete season) : 35

Average per season for each manager:

Sheridan: 96
Adams: 41
Lowe: 42

Interesting...

(Mods, feel free to rename my username to "Ridiculous Stats Man" or whatever )

I'd be interested to see that broken down into minutes on the pitch rather than appearances though.

Who knows what home grown talent we might have had in the team if Lowe had overseen the periods Sheridan and Adams did, I personally expect it would be a lot more.

It's interesting that you make the point above how Adams/Sheridan didn't care about home grown talent and Lowe does, as this is how many appearances each manager gave to players aged 23 and under who came through our youth team:

12/13 (half-season) 25
13/14: 132
14/15: 83
15/16: 83
16/17: 30
17/18: 20
18/19: 32
19/20 (not complete season) : 35

Average per season for each manager:

Sheridan: 96
Adams: 41
Lowe: 42

Interesting...

(Mods, feel free to rename my username to "Ridiculous Stats Man" or whatever )

Interesting stats. The seasons where there appears to be far greater use of youth are largely dependent on regular appearances by one player, Curtis Nelson. Whilst he will have played for Argyle's youth team, Nelson was almost 17 when he joined us from Stoke, and it's therefore a matter of opinion as to whether he was truly "one of our own".