Misery loves company

Lobster · Dec 2, 2020

I noticed a trend on here that there seem to be a lot more active posters (or at least more posts) when we are losing than when we are winning. So I crunched some numbers about the match threads from our competitive games this season.

The average number of pages on the threads is:

20 pages when we lose
17.5 pages when we draw (skewed by that crazy Wimbledon game - 26 pages!)
12.6 pages when we win.

Longest thread: 30 pages vs Rochdale.
Shortest thread: 8 pages vs Northampton.

Not sure what point I'm making, if any, but thought it was an interesting reflection.

philevs · Dec 2, 2020

Highly interesting stats, thanks for doing this and bringing it to our attention, let’s hope we all have a think about what the meaning of it is.

WoodsyGreen · Dec 2, 2020

Lobster":63nsg5b0 said:
I noticed a trend on here that there seem to be a lot more active posters (or at least more posts) when we are losing than when we are winning. So I crunched some numbers about the match threads from our competitive games this season.

The average number of pages on the threads is:

20 pages when we lose
17.5 pages when we draw (skewed by that crazy Wimbledon game - 26 pages!)
12.6 pages when we win.

Longest thread: 30 pages vs Rochdale.
Shortest thread: 8 pages vs Northampton.

Not sure what point I'm making, if any, but thought it was an interesting reflection.

People like the comfort of unloading in a crisis. It's just human nature and certainly isn't exclusive to Pasoti or football in general.

Balham Green · Dec 2, 2020

philevs":s53ls07w said:
Highly interesting stats, thanks for doing this and bringing it to our attention, let’s hope we all have a think about what the meaning of it is.

Don't think I will have a think about the meaning of it personally. Better things to worry about.

third earl of jean · Dec 2, 2020

Interesting viewpoint and I do certainly agree that there's a largish proportion on Pasoti who are too glass half empty. Up to everyone to chose their mindset but I tend to think a glass half full approach to life is much the better one where possible without being blind to things which can be improved. In terms of last night though that was a truly exceptional performance, in this case exceptionally bad. I think an exceptionally good performance would lead to a long thread too.

Mark58 · Dec 2, 2020

I think it just reflects the mindset of a significant number of British football fans - only a tiny percentage of which are the 'entitled' who regularly watch their team win, week in, week out. I honestly don't know whether Janners (I am one) are any more predisposed to moaning than Brummies, Scousers or Geordies. What I can say, from long personal experience of the Mayflower (since a teenager), is that it has always been "Moan Central" :lol: For my own peace of mind I normally try to maintain a more positive demeanour than most around me, but I have to admit that I would have had trouble with that based on last night's showing.

X Isle · Dec 2, 2020

'Tis the main of many reasons why I stopped posting on football matters. The unending cycle, nay vortex of doom of the football fan.

Every time a new manager comes in he gets a pass for a while. It gets extended if the football is good (Holloway & Shilton for examples). It gets extended if the results are good even if the football isn't (Adam's and Pulis for examples). But ultimately, however the incumbent manages to extend their honeymoon period, sooner or later (and it does seem to be sooner in recent years) the same old wringing of hands and demands for this that and the other starts up.

Round and round this cycle goes in ever decreasing circles. I used to roll my sleeves up and wade in but I think experience eventually showed me that it is pointless even participating in the process. No player stays forever, no manager stays forever, the good times always end, the bad times always end. Far better to just enjoy what you can enjoy while you can enjoy it.

To be Nouble about it, we'll all be dead eventually and you don't get the hours of pointless arguements about the never changing cycle of ups and downs of a bleddy football team back at the end.

I would've thought the absence since last winter of being able to simply go and watch your team play a football match might've engendered a sense of perspective in this regard. The imminent token return of that simple pleasure might've engendered some treasuring of what we have missed.

But no, some mercenaries wearing our badge lost a home game no-one was at led by a manager who good or bad will ultimately depart somewhere else. So 'kin what, it's happened before and it'll happen again.

To most though posting about a defeat seems like a trigger happy game shooter on the glorious 12th, licence to fire off those keys like there's no tomorrow. It always happens, it always has happened and it always will happen... until you reach football supporting nirvana and realise none of this, not one little bit, actually matters.

Just go and watch a match of football. Win, lose or draw just enjoy it and be thankful you can. Kipling's words about treating with equal contempt those imposters called success and failure is equally relevant to football. Nothing is permanent, only constant flux.

Trust me, you'll enjoy football a thousand times more if you ditch all expectations. Just watch what's there, enjoy the game, then go and have your tea. Zero angst, zero baggage, muchos Zen :thumbup:

Mark58 · Dec 2, 2020

X Isle":2ohuuagx said:
'Tis the main of many reasons why I stopped posting on football matters. The unending cycle, nay vortex of doom of the football fan.

Every time a new manager comes in he gets a pass for a while. It gets extended if the football is good (Holloway & Shilton for examples). It gets extended if the results are good even if the football isn't (Adam's and Pulis for examples). But ultimately, however the incumbent manages to extend their honeymoon period, sooner or later (and it does seem to be sooner in recent years) the same old wringing of hands and demands for this that and the other starts up.

Round and round this cycle goes in ever decreasing circles. I used to roll my sleeves up and wade in but I think experience eventually showed me that it is pointless even participating in the process. No player stays forever, no manager stays forever, the good times always end, the bad times always end. Far better to just enjoy what you can enjoy while you can enjoy it.

To be Nouble about it, we'll all be dead eventually and you don't get the hours of pointless arguements about the never changing cycle of ups and downs of a bleddy football team back at the end.

I would've thought the absence since last winter of being able to simply go and watch your team play a football match might've engendered a sense of perspective in this regard. The imminent token return of that simple pleasure might've engendered some treasuring of what we have missed.

But no, some mercenaries wearing our badge lost a home game no-one was at led by a manager who good or bad will ultimately depart somewhere else. So 'kin what, it's happened before and it'll happen again.

To most though posting about a defeat seems like a trigger happy game shooter on the glorious 12th, licence to fire off those keys like there's no tomorrow. It always happens, it always has happened and it always will happen... until you reach football supporting nirvana and realise none of this, not one little bit, actually matters.

Just go and watch a match of football. Win, lose or draw just enjoy it and be thankful you can. Kipling's words about treating with equal contempt those imposters called success and failure is equally relevant to football. Nothing is permanent, only constant flux.

Trust me, you'll enjoy football a thousand times more if you ditch all expectations. Just watch what's there, enjoy the game, then go and have your tea. Zero angst, zero baggage, muchos Zen :thumbup:

Wise words, indeed, X Isle and, of course, the logic is unarguable. Sadly, 'logic' and 'football' rarely go together. I would genuinely love to adopt your suggested stance (it would make my life a lot simpler and angst-free!) but I doubt that my good intentions would last any longer than until the next game...

The Doctor · Dec 2, 2020

X Isle":2rbm06hc said:
'Tis the main of many reasons why I stopped posting on football matters. The unending cycle, nay vortex of doom of the football fan.

Every time a new manager comes in he gets a pass for a while. It gets extended if the football is good (Holloway & Shilton for examples). It gets extended if the results are good even if the football isn't (Adam's and Pulis for examples). But ultimately, however the incumbent manages to extend their honeymoon period, sooner or later (and it does seem to be sooner in recent years) the same old wringing of hands and demands for this that and the other starts up.

Round and round this cycle goes in ever decreasing circles. I used to roll my sleeves up and wade in but I think experience eventually showed me that it is pointless even participating in the process. No player stays forever, no manager stays forever, the good times always end, the bad times always end. Far better to just enjoy what you can enjoy while you can enjoy it.

To be Nouble about it, we'll all be dead eventually and you don't get the hours of pointless arguements about the never changing cycle of ups and downs of a bleddy football team back at the end.

I would've thought the absence since last winter of being able to simply go and watch your team play a football match might've engendered a sense of perspective in this regard. The imminent token return of that simple pleasure might've engendered some treasuring of what we have missed.

But no, some mercenaries wearing our badge lost a home game no-one was at led by a manager who good or bad will ultimately depart somewhere else. So 'kin what, it's happened before and it'll happen again.

To most though posting about a defeat seems like a trigger happy game shooter on the glorious 12th, licence to fire off those keys like there's no tomorrow. It always happens, it always has happened and it always will happen... until you reach football supporting nirvana and realise none of this, not one little bit, actually matters.

Just go and watch a match of football. Win, lose or draw just enjoy it and be thankful you can. Kipling's words about treating with equal contempt those imposters called success and failure is equally relevant to football. Nothing is permanent, only constant flux.

Trust me, you'll enjoy football a thousand times more if you ditch all expectations. Just watch what's there, enjoy the game, then go and have your tea. Zero angst, zero baggage, muchos Zen :thumbup:

Whereas for some people...

... posting about fans moaning about a defeat seems like a trigger happy game shooter on the glorious 12th, licence to fire off those keys like there's no tomorrow. It always happens, it always has happened and it always will happen...

It's quite possible to 'Just go and watch a match of football. Win, lose or draw just enjoy it and be thankful you can' whilst also choosing to post a few disappointment-fed comments after a particularly hard to enjoy defeat...

X Isle · Dec 2, 2020

People are different Mr Doctor. All I'm signposting is that there is an alternative path to take... don't read or participate in it all.

Guiri Green · Dec 2, 2020

It's always the same on a matchday thread, you know that as soon as we concede or are obviously going to have a bad game, the number of posts will shoot up. I think by about the midway point last night, it had exceeded the previous winning game's total.

I said last night that the honeymoon is now officially over and it's time to turn. There's usually a point where it's no longer contractually obligatory to idolise the manager. Give it a few more similar performances and it'll be trendy to want him out.

Then the prewritten matchday post-mortems can be rolled out.

It's Argyle, it's what and why we do it.

X Isle · Dec 2, 2020

Mark58":1oqr168t said:
Wise words, indeed, X Isle and, of course, the logic is unarguable. Sadly, 'logic' and 'football' rarely go together. I would genuinely love to adopt your suggested stance (it would make my life a lot simpler and angst-free!) but I doubt that my good intentions would last any longer than until the next game...

How would you know until you try Mark

Seriously, possibly once normality returns, try it. Log off and just don't come back (I gave it nearly a year and now never discuss football matters). But you can even delete your account if it helps you break the addiction.

It's so liberating, there's a whole new wonderful world of simple footballing enjoyment on the other side. I say new, actually it's just exactly the same enjoyment football used to be before football messageboards and social media... a quick grumble with your mates in the pub or the lift share home, then its gone, over, and you can get on with the more important things in life.

Remove the ball and chain of everyone else's football opinion. Just because modern technology allows you to see what 'Angry of Mutley' and a thousand others has to say, doesn't mean you HAVE to absorb that information. It's hugely debilitating, and endlessly responding to it just makes it worse.

Another way of looking at it is this. I always strived not to say anything on PASOTI that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying to someones face, many others do the same. Well by the same token you simply wouldn't have these post defeat 20 page thread conversations with anyone face to face either. I mean, would you stand there and listen to that tsunami of sh*t from people in a pub?

No, so just walk away. Trust me, you won't miss it for even a split second and it'll make you a nicer person to those around you too.

WoodsyGreen · Dec 2, 2020

There's only one thing worse than moaners, and that's people who moan about moaners. Though even they aren't as bad as the people who moan about about moaners moaning about moaners.

Guiri Green · Dec 2, 2020

WoodsyGreen":1rvys5yv said:
There's only one thing worse than moaners, and that's people who moan about moaners. Though even they aren't as bad as the people who moan about about moaners moaning about moaners.

Spare a thought for groaners, painfully neglected at times.

Metal Green Mickey · Dec 2, 2020

Hmmmmm....

I often find if you make constructive criticism when your winning you will be questioned why your not happy.

I also tend to find that comments are mostly picked up and noticed after defeats.

I try to stay consistent when l post. When we were winning and near the playoffs it didn’t feel right to me. Games were won but l can’t say it was convincing. Yet a number we’re talking about the playoffs and l kept thinking are they watching the same game as me. Sure it’s great to win but the performances need to be convincing in order to believe your position is sustainable. Too many games were played where l kept watching us concede guilt edge chances and the opposition didn’t take them. In the last few games they have.

I’m not too disheartened. I believe at some stage of the season we would be pulled into the relegation battle. I am hoping the positive mindset of our manager will mean that we can pick up enough wins during the course of this season where we can keep clear of the bottom four. I think 14th - 17th this season was realistic.

I don’t think it’s misery at all. I mean sure some love to just be negative full stop. I just thing it’s realism kicking in and we are currently seeing how difficult it is to play attacking football without having the right blend of players to pull it off.

When we win. People go overboard. When we lose. People go overboard. Either way emotions run high. It’s what makes social media platforms so compelling. The platform to display your emotions. Sometimes that’s good and other times not.

I think 19pts at this stage of the season is still OK. Currently with Lowe lm waiting to see how he adapts his tactics to life in league one. Until then we won’t know if he is as good as we all hoped he would be.