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Are the players good enough to play passing football?

Mar 14, 2009
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Every game see the same basic passing mistakes from the same players.

For me, you don't play this type of system if you can't excute possession of your passes accurately as you will be exposed time and time again.

It happens too many times now for it not to be an issue regarding the players inability to excute decent levels of passing.

There is no doubt a number of these players can do it for brief spells in games. However, their lack of consistency throughout the game unfortunately means we will continue to struggle to control games.

I think the one player who typifies this most is Danny Mayor. Flashes of brilliance. However, very rarely does he hurt the opposition. Too many times he hurts the team by continuing to gave away pocession in poor areas. I really wanted him to work at Argyle. Yet unfortunately the guys unbelievable talent isn't impacting enough in games within the current system.

Personally, l think he can be utilised better in a different system in a LW type area. However, l can't see Lowe changing his CM position and l think we need more consistency from players if we are to progress forward.

I feel the team out on the pitch today is probably our best 11. However, it shows how important recruitment will be over next 12 months because we need much improved quality on the ball.
 
Dec 22, 2010
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north devon
I think if we could get a decent fee for Mayor in the transfer window we could replace him with a player who will have more impact over 90 mins. One could hardly tell if he was even playing in the second half as he was hardly involved like most matches hes played in. Just my opinion but the facts back me up. Perhaps he wants away we need more from him like the energy Camara gives.
 
Apr 1, 2009
4,307
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Clem":qby22xww said:
I think if we could get a decent fee for Mayor in the transfer window we could replace him with a player who will have more impact over 90 mins. One could hardly tell if he was even playing in the second half as he was hardly involved like most matches hes played in. Just my opinion but the facts back me up. Perhaps he wants away we need more from him like the energy Camara gives.

Never ceases to amaze me when people go on about a player being poor, then suggest we can sell him for good money (at our level). Particularly in the case of a 30 year old, likely to be on good money and a relatively short contract, who has never been transferred for a fee.
 
Aug 5, 2016
5,100
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Clem":14w1z7kx said:
I think if we could get a decent fee for Mayor in the transfer window we could replace him with a player who will have more impact over 90 mins. One could hardly tell if he was even playing in the second half as he was hardly involved like most matches hes played in. Just my opinion but the facts back me up. Perhaps he wants away we need more from him like the energy Camara gives.

Why would we get a ā€œdecent feeā€ for him?

Few goals, few assists, few MOM performances and aged 30. Probably on one of the highest wages at the club.

What team is going to spend money on that in January?
 
May 27, 2019
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Knibbsworth":bprnh9zy said:
Clem":bprnh9zy said:
I think if we could get a decent fee for Mayor in the transfer window we could replace him with a player who will have more impact over 90 mins. One could hardly tell if he was even playing in the second half as he was hardly involved like most matches hes played in. Just my opinion but the facts back me up. Perhaps he wants away we need more from him like the energy Camara gives.

Why would we get a ā€œdecent feeā€ for him?

Few goals, few assists, few MOM performances and aged 30. Probably on one of the highest wages at the club.

What team is going to spend money on that in January?

Especially as his contract expires at the end of June
 
Jul 12, 2016
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The penny is starting to drop. Mayor is a delight to watch on occasions but despite the euphoria from some fans ,who have suddenly gone rather quiet, he has not fulfilled the promise we expected.I can see him leaving us at the end of the season for a club nearer home.
 

Mark58

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Feb 19, 2018
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oldage":qn0k67om said:
The penny is starting to drop. Mayor is a delight to watch on occasions but despite the euphoria from some fans ,who have suddenly gone rather quiet, he has not fulfilled the promise we expected.I can see him leaving us at the end of the season for a club nearer home.


I fear you may be right, Oldage. Since he joined Argyle I have desperately tried to be as positive about DM as I can but even my positivity is starting to wane. Every time he gets the ball I hear myself saying, 'COME on, Danny Mayor!' and preparing myself for a scintillating dribble and a rocket shot into the top right corner - or at least a magical assist. But, more often than not, it all ends up in disappointment. A wayward pass, an off-target shot, a loss of control that results in the ball harmlessly going the wrong side of the line...

There is no doubt that DM is a very talented footballer. I cannot fault his passion, loyalty to the team and honest endeavour - and I am sure that he is as frustrated as we are - but, sadly, it doesn't seem to be working out the way we were lead to believe. A great pity.
 

Tugboat

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Some purple patches but largely underwhelming.

The wage figure Iā€™ve heard is not anywhere near justified unfortunately.
 
Oct 24, 2010
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Metal_Green_Mickey":2g1zvyqh said:
Every game see the same basic passing mistakes from the same players.

For me, you don't play this type of system if you can't excute possession of your passes accurately as you will be exposed time and time again.

It happens too many times now for it not to be an issue regarding the players inability to excute decent levels of passing.

There is no doubt a number of these players can do it for brief spells in games. However, their lack of consistency throughout the game unfortunately means we will continue to struggle to control games.

I think the one player who typifies this most is Danny Mayor. Flashes of brilliance. However, very rarely does he hurt the opposition. Too many times he hurts the team by continuing to gave away pocession in poor areas. I really wanted him to work at Argyle. Yet unfortunately the guys unbelievable talent isn't impacting enough in games within the current system.

Personally, l think he can be utilised better in a different system in a LW type area. However, l can't see Lowe changing his CM position and l think we need more consistency from players if we are to progress forward.

I feel the team out on the pitch today is probably our best 11. However, it shows how important recruitment will be over next 12 months because we need much improved quality on the ball.

I agree our passing at times is very poor, typified by the second half yesterday when we continually gave the ball away when in promising situations. In the summer Ryan Lowe concentrated his recruitment on the midfield (at the expense of the defence, unfortunately) and we do have some quality players. McLeod, Camera, Mayor, Grant, Reeves and Fornah are all good players but unfortunately, they let themselves down at times and yesterday all three midfielders were very poor in the second half. When we play a team with good payers like Charlton the pace is a little quicker and we need to adjust to it and be that little bit sharper. Our passing in the first half was at times slick, the combination of Mayor and Grant in particular down the left side worked well as it has in previous games, but we couldnā€™t sustain it into the second half when Charlton upped the pace. I did think we improved when we tweaked the formation with Camara dropping back beside McLeod and Mayor going into the no 10 role. I think we look a lot more solid with that formation and enjoy more possession.

Regarding Mayor for me he is a top player at this level and easily our best player, I feel at times he has confidence issues and maybe at times feels the responsibility of being our best player on a big wage but if we get him on the ball in the right areas he can be very effective.
 

GreenThing

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I think the passing game is suited to a squad of world class players, which is why it works well for teams like Barcelona but we donā€™t see it much in the lower leagues.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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" if we get him on the ball in the right areas he can be very effective". esmer's quote about Mayor,He does get the ball in the right areas,but does very little with it.
 
Jan 4, 2005
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esmer":2drxei80 said:
Metal_Green_Mickey":2drxei80 said:
Every game see the same basic passing mistakes from the same players.

For me, you don't play this type of system if you can't excute possession of your passes accurately as you will be exposed time and time again.

It happens too many times now for it not to be an issue regarding the players inability to excute decent levels of passing.

There is no doubt a number of these players can do it for brief spells in games. However, their lack of consistency throughout the game unfortunately means we will continue to struggle to control games.

I think the one player who typifies this most is Danny Mayor. Flashes of brilliance. However, very rarely does he hurt the opposition. Too many times he hurts the team by continuing to gave away pocession in poor areas. I really wanted him to work at Argyle. Yet unfortunately the guys unbelievable talent isn't impacting enough in games within the current system.

Personally, l think he can be utilised better in a different system in a LW type area. However, l can't see Lowe changing his CM position and l think we need more consistency from players if we are to progress forward.

I feel the team out on the pitch today is probably our best 11. However, it shows how important recruitment will be over next 12 months because we need much improved quality on the ball.

I agree our passing at times is very poor, typified by the second half yesterday when we continually gave the ball away when in promising situations. In the summer Ryan Lowe concentrated his recruitment on the midfield (at the expense of the defence, unfortunately) and we do have some quality players. McLeod, Camera, Mayor, Grant, Reeves and Fornah are all good players but unfortunately, they let themselves down at times and yesterday all three midfielders were very poor in the second half. When we play a team with good payers like Charlton the pace is a little quicker and we need to adjust to it and be that little bit sharper. Our passing in the first half was at times slick, the combination of Mayor and Grant in particular down the left side worked well as it has in previous games, but we couldnā€™t sustain it into the second half when Charlton upped the pace. I did think we improved when we tweaked the formation with Camara dropping back beside McLeod and Mayor going into the no 10 role. I think we look a lot more solid with that formation and enjoy more possession.

Regarding Mayor for me he is a top player at this level and easily our best player, I feel at times he has confidence issues and maybe at times feels the responsibility of being our best player on a big wage but if we get him on the ball in the right areas he can be very effective.

Do not forget he quickly does run out of his own half into 'right areas' as you describe them, with the ball at his feet. Then, the 'assist' statistic is not so forthcoming. How many of Jephers goals have originated from DM's 'assist'? Given that LJ is third in the Division's top scorers list, the stat should be significant in his success.
 
Aug 5, 2016
5,100
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GreenThing":1s8bldzb said:
I think the passing game is suited to a squad of world class players, which is why it works well for teams like Barcelona but we donā€™t see it much in the lower leagues.

Despite Argyle being a bottom half side, I find watching Argyle an absolute treat at the moment and the likes of Danny Mayor and Panutche Camara are a massive part of that. Gliding through the pitch, an opponent pulling back either shoulder, yet they still want to run further and further.

I don't think Lowe is over ambitious in the way he wants them to play at all. At times we are a superb side full of technical ability.

Maybe I am deluded but stranger things have happened than this side sneaking into the playoffs with a good end of season run.

Mayor is not at his best at the moment but there is no doubt that on his day he is the best player at the club. If an opponent wants to do a defensive job on Argyle, they close him and Argyle shut down. First half yesterday, Mayor was dominant, therefore defenders being drawn to him gave Hardie space to do his stuff too. Hardie running the channels gives Jephcott time to find space. Argyle score goals. Mayor goes off the boil second half and isn't involved, therefore Hardie becomes anonymous and is living off scraps. Jephcott gets nothing. Argyle look blunt.

Mayor's form, confidence, mood - it is integral to it all. Take him out of the side altogether and we lose 0-4 to Rochdale.

It is a job to know what the critics want. Do they really want Mayor dropped or moved on? Why not instead try to work out what makes him play so well and keep him playing like that?
 
Feb 8, 2005
4,273
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Camara worries me sometimes.

He is excellent going forward, and shows good effort to both get the ball and to run with it, but his long balls do not get to their destination. It may be that the players around him cannot keep up with him and so he has no alternative but to try a long ball. Perhaps the forwards are not giving him the opportunity to pass. He then needs to hold the ball and wait for others to move forward in order that we can move forward as a team.

And yes, he can get pushed off the ball easily, but he needs to learn to protect the ball when he has it, meaning he doesn't allow the opposition to bully him off the ball, not easy for someone of his build and stature.

His defensive work is poor and needs improvement in tracking back. Our first goal against, yesterday, was an example. He allowed his man to get in front of him and score.

I am critical of what he is now, but I am excited as to what he can become after being coached on his deficiencies.
 
Mar 14, 2009
5,148
277
Itā€™s a fine balance between being critical and asking particular questions regarding our play style. I do enjoy our ā€˜approachā€™ in that our only thought each game is to win it and you can see that intent in the way we play.

There are l feel certain questions though about our play style l keep wondering.

Do we need to put ourselves in so much trouble at the back with passes that often cause a lot of counter attacking issues because teams press us and we donā€™t have the ability not to give away the ball in silly areas.

Or is our problems stemming from a formation issue? I think this question I look at the second half yesterday as prime example. Except for Camera's driving runs we struggled to do much going forward for second 45 min period. We donā€™t seem to have the passing options and end up hitting a long ball down the line when we run out of ideas.

I look at the 3 CBā€™s. They look to pass it to LWB, RWB or the CDM. The problem is the opposition swamp us and often intercept the ball. So then we lose confidence and hit the longer ball down the line and lose possession. In the first half we could play it out from the back. In the second half we completely lost our way. It happens in a number of games. Often teams press us more or a tactical tweak occurs (and we donā€™t adjust to it) as the game wears on. Fleetwood played us perfectly. They let the CBā€™s have the ball. When we tried to play it out they were ready for us and pressed the LWB, RWB and CDM. We lose the ball, lost our shape and they scored from our bad passing.

I honestly believe that we need better players on the ball. However, the more l see us play the more lm convinced the formation is an issue because we donā€™t have the natural width to get up the pitch once teams pin our LWB, RWB, CDM back.

The two STā€™s need more support too. Mayor loves to be in a wider position. If he didn't he wouldnā€™t keep drifting out to the left. It doesnā€™t help Argyle though as there is a massive gap in the midfield and our team shape is exposed.

There is no doubt our most talented and skilful player is Danny Mayor. This CM position may of worked at Bury for him but for Argyle for whatever reason we arenā€™t seeing any consistency. For the benefit of him and the team he needs a position further forward and out wide. Itā€™s not only him. You can do this with G Cooper too.

If Lowe wants to play 3 at the back then to me, you lose a ST, and you play a 5-2-3. It gives Argyle much more natural width. It allows our best attacking options to play further forward and wider and it helps the team stretch the play better when looking to pass out from the back.