January funds

slingsbypobble · Dec 30, 2020

Lots of talk about spending in January but not much about where the money is coming from. I worry that as a business, Argyle is extremely stretched (just like other EFL clubs) due to vastly reduced gate money.

Sure, you fans have played a blinder by passing up the season ticket refund, and that's great - but it isn't going to offset the 'pay on the day' gate receipts we'd normally be getting in a non-pandemic season.

My worry is that there is no money in the kitty for the defender(s) we desperately need. Reading PASOTI I feel like some are expecting a £500k 22yo Championship defender to sign for five years. Instead I fear we'll be riding the loan lottery AGAIN, with whatever favours RL can bag from his illustrious mates. Or sign someone not under contract, only for them to join the long list of Argyle squad has-beens.

Any investment has to come from Father Hallett, who may well be sick of pumping money into the club by now - especially with a shiny new grandstand which isn't really being used.

jimsing · Dec 30, 2020

slingsby_pobble":1kvwpfp7 said:
Lots of talk about spending in January but not much about where the money is coming from. I worry that as a business, Argyle is extremely stretched (just like other EFL clubs) due to vastly reduced gate money.

Sure, you fans have played a blinder by passing up the season ticket refund, and that's great - but it isn't going to offset the 'pay on the day' gate receipts we'd normally be getting in a non-pandemic season.

My worry is that there is no money in the kitty for the defender(s) we desperately need. Reading PASOTI I feel like some are expecting a £500k 22yo Championship defender to sign for five years. Instead I fear we'll be riding the loan lottery AGAIN, with whatever favours RL can bag from his illustrious mates. Or sign someone not under contract, only for them to join the long list of Argyle squad has-beens.

Any investment has to come from Father Hallett, who may well be sick of pumping money into the club by now - especially with a shiny new grandstand which isn't really being used.

Hallett has already said that he has provided sufficient money for the club to survive this year and that there will be no more to come.

Lowe can ask, and if Hallett thought relegation was a serious possibility then there may be funds forthcoming, but don't bank on it, even if we are in the relegation zone come the end of January.

Loans would seem to be the only possibility, and only then if current loan players were to return to their home clubs.

January signings rarely do well. They are cast-offs that other clubs do not want.

edengreen · Dec 30, 2020

jimsing":1riia0qu said:
slingsby_pobble":1riia0qu said:

Lots of talk about spending in January but not much about where the money is coming from. I worry that as a business, Argyle is extremely stretched (just like other EFL clubs) due to vastly reduced gate money.

Sure, you fans have played a blinder by passing up the season ticket refund, and that's great - but it isn't going to offset the 'pay on the day' gate receipts we'd normally be getting in a non-pandemic season.

My worry is that there is no money in the kitty for the defender(s) we desperately need. Reading PASOTI I feel like some are expecting a £500k 22yo Championship defender to sign for five years. Instead I fear we'll be riding the loan lottery AGAIN, with whatever favours RL can bag from his illustrious mates. Or sign someone not under contract, only for them to join the long list of Argyle squad has-beens.

Any investment has to come from Father Hallett, who may well be sick of pumping money into the club by now - especially with a shiny new grandstand which isn't really being used.

Click to expand...

Hallett has already said that he has provided sufficient money for the club to survive this year and that there will be no more to come.

Lowe can ask, and if Hallett thought relegation was a serious possibility then there may be funds forthcoming, but don't bank on it, even if we are in the relegation zone come the end of January.

Loans would seem to be the only possibility, and only then if current loan players were to return to their home clubs.

January signings rarely do well. They are cast-offs that other clubs do not want.

That's good news should be easy to shift some of ours then if this is the case!

philevs · Dec 30, 2020

As I understand it, no fresh money will be made available by SH, but having given the club the budget that he has, some of it is left for dealings in January. So I’d be hopeful.

PL2 3DQ · Dec 30, 2020

Yes, it depends how much of his budget Lowe spent at the start of the season and if he has any left for January.

Abraham has gone back to Fulham and with Opoku's loan also ending there's two places in the squad, although we don't know how much of their wages Fulham were paying.
Jack Ruddy's short contract also ends in January so there should be enough scope for Lowe to wheel and deal but we all know we need just one player - an experienced centre-back who is a leader.

Metal Green Mickey · Dec 30, 2020

Ok, so we get the experienced defender, who is a leader.

That still leaves 2 of 3 CB’s positions to be filled and unfortunately they are all rash in their decision making and make consistent mistakes.

Then you have the midfield. We over run and dominated after 45 mins in most games.

The wing backs. Edwards is doing a decent job but him, Cooper, Moore, Grant aren’t wing backs. In the second half they don’t have the stamina needed to get up and down the pitch on a regular basis. Argyle get suffocated in the middle of the field because our wing backs get pinned back because they don’t have the stamina required. When they do get forward we are vulnerable to the counter attack (as with Oxfords second goal) as they don’t have the defensive instincts or energy levels to get back and cover.

Then we have the forwards. Hardie actually is very aware of his team mates. What Argyle need though is real physical presence, but unlike Nouble, with a goal threat.

I think if we are clinging onto the hope one player will change everything l think we are refusing to accept many of the other shortfalls in our team. Look how many players we play out of position just to put players in a system Lowe refuses to change.

He kept a number of these players on. He should have realised these players weren’t good enough last season. The damage was done in the last window. This window, with limited funds and Covid-19 restrictions with are thinking a few players, who nobody wants, will plaster over some big cracks in our team. If it was just the defence then fine. I think you could make an argument for a number of positions in the team that need improvement just as much.

Tugboat · Dec 30, 2020

We need 4 outs and 2 ins.

xmastree · Dec 30, 2020

Metal_Green_Mickey":1rgf7qxh said:
Ok, so we get the experienced defender, who is a leader.

That still leaves 2 of 3 CB’s positions to be filled and unfortunately they are all rash in their decision making and make consistent mistakes.

Then you have the midfield. We over run and dominated after 45 mins in most games.

The wing backs. Edwards is doing a decent job but him, Cooper, Moore, Grant aren’t wing backs. In the second half they don’t have the stamina needed to get up and down the pitch on a regular basis. Argyle get suffocated in the middle of the field because our wing backs get pinned back because they don’t have the stamina required. When they do get forward we are vulnerable to the counter attack (as with Oxfords second goal) as they don’t have the defensive instincts or energy levels to get back and cover.

Then we have the forwards. Hardie actually is very aware of his team mates. What Argyle need though is real physical presence, but unlike Nouble, with a goal threat.

I think if we are clinging onto the hope one player will change everything l think we are refusing to accept many of the other shortfalls in our team. Look how many players we play out of position just to put players in a system Lowe refuses to change.

He kept a number of these players on. He should have realised these players weren’t good enough last season. The damage was done in the last window. This window, with limited funds and Covid-19 restrictions with are thinking a few players, who nobody wants, will plaster over some big cracks in our team. If it was just the defence then fine. I think you could make an argument for a number of positions in the team that need improvement just as much.

You bang on endlessly that Lowe should have released certain players who are not good enough for L1, rather than looking at who he has brought in. If I've calculated correctly he's brought in 12 players (7 permanent and 5 onloan) since last season. How many of these actually feature regularly? Camara, Watts, and Hardie. Macleod, currently being bigged up by RL, hasn't justified the hype as he's regularly injured. Reeves, previously good at this level, appears to have lost it. George Cooper, bought for significant money by our standards, looks out of his depth. Nouble's way short of what is required. The other young loans haven't clicked.

If he (or perhaps I should say "they" as Dewsnip is a big part of this) had recruited well, then some of last year's lesser lights could have acted as cover. The poor recruitment has shown up their inadequacies. Wootton and Canavan are L2 players, Moore's regressed badly after a decent season last year, Telford's lightweight, Aimson has disappointed, the veteran Sawyer out injured. Apart from our own youngsters, Conor Grant is probably the only one to improve, Edwards has worked consistently hard, and Mayor though continuing to flatter to deceive, remains one of our best.

You're right that we don't have specialist wingbacks in a formation in which wingbacks are crucial. We have a largeish squad with very few performing adequately. I don't think it's impossible to change things around, but it's not going to be easy.

PL2 3DQ · Dec 30, 2020

Metal_Green_Mickey":29pssxfd said:
Ok, so we get the experienced defender, who is a leader.

That still leaves 2 of 3 CB’s positions to be filled and unfortunately they are all rash in their decision making and make consistent mistakes.

Then you have the midfield. We over run and dominated after 45 mins in most games.

The wing backs. Edwards is doing a decent job but him, Cooper, Moore, Grant aren’t wing backs. In the second half they don’t have the stamina needed to get up and down the pitch on a regular basis. Argyle get suffocated in the middle of the field because our wing backs get pinned back because they don’t have the stamina required. When they do get forward we are vulnerable to the counter attack (as with Oxfords second goal) as they don’t have the defensive instincts or energy levels to get back and cover.

Then we have the forwards. Hardie actually is very aware of his team mates. What Argyle need though is real physical presence, but unlike Nouble, with a goal threat.

I think if we are clinging onto the hope one player will change everything l think we are refusing to accept many of the other shortfalls in our team. Look how many players we play out of position just to put players in a system Lowe refuses to change.

He kept a number of these players on. He should have realised these players weren’t good enough last season. The damage was done in the last window. This window, with limited funds and Covid-19 restrictions with are thinking a few players, who nobody wants, will plaster over some big cracks in our team. If it was just the defence then fine. I think you could make an argument for a number of positions in the team that need improvement just as much.

That sounds like we need a whole new team

which we can't afford.
We showed earlier in the season that we can compete in this league so we are not a complete basket case, with an addition of an experienced centre-back and more tactical flexibility during games we should have enough for a mid to lower table finish.

Metal Green Mickey · Dec 31, 2020

I do apologise. Your right l do bang on but it’s the frustration of saying something and the 6 months later we still have that problem.

I said at the start Wootton, Canavan weren’t even good L2 defenders so why on earth do we think they would have a good season in L1.

We signed players numerous players but a number of them are returners. For example G Cooper. Why buy him when they don’t fit your system.

The thing is Postey l am talking in this way not because l think we should / could sign a new team. However, a number of the players we signed or kept don’t seem to have a proper role in the team.

Edwards a converted wing back who was a midfielder
Moore a player of many parts but doesn’t hold down a place regularly
C Grant Attacking Midfielder, Defensive Midfielder, Left Wing Back
G Cooper a winger who we are trying to play as a wing back

Then there are the others who just don’t play like Reeves, Telford...

Basically what lm saying is he created a system and hasn’t seemed to identify exactly how these players were going to fit together.

The one postive is Camara. His passing can go AWOL but l have been singing his praises since the start of the season.

Knibbsworth · Dec 31, 2020

It is absurd to expect Hallett to get his chequebook out now. He made sure Lowe had everything he needed in the summer and that we still had a club to follow. He financed the George Cooper deal and he has hardly been played.

In all seriousness, would you give £10,000 out of your savings for Lowe to go and get what he wants?

He wanted Abraham and Opoku. He wanted Reeves but never plays him. He wanted Nouble to be his main man up front. He signed Telford on a two year contract but has given him about 5 starts in two seasons.

I am not criticising Lowe to be fashionable. I am just saying it is easy to spend other peoples’ money, and given Lowe’s judgement of signings would you be handing over your wallet?

Daz · Dec 31, 2020

I’m not sure anyone has said that RL should be given a war chest from SH to buy a load of new players have they? I’ve only seen it in the original post.

That said, I’m hoping that we haven’t blown all of the budget and have some saved for January. I would also say that if we haven’t budgeted for changes in January SH will need to make a decision on whether to invest a bit now or lose far more by being relegated.

Good job he has deep pockets as being a football chairman is thankless and very expensive either way.

WoodsyGreen · Dec 31, 2020

Metal_Green_Mickey":1qrj41kq said:
I said at the start Wootton, Canavan weren’t even good L2 defenders so why on earth do we think they would have a good season in L1.

We signed players numerous players but a number of them are returners. For example G Cooper. Why buy him when they don’t fit your system.

Edwards a converted wing back who was a midfielder

You didn't have to be Nostradamus to forecast the inability of Canavan and the bungling Wootton to make it in League One. They had already shown us they couldn't under DA.

George Cooper demonstrably does fit the system and was one of our better players in our encouraging start to the season. People have short memories.

Joe Edwards has played the majority of his career at right-back so the transition to right wingback isn't as big a leap as you are suggesting. He has been one of our most consistent performers this season.

If we sign a CB or two who can actually organise a defence and concentrate for 90 minutes then it'll make a huge difference. I'd also prefer a new keeper to be brought in as the current incumbent isn't good enough, but I'm not expecting that to happen because funds are scarce and they need to be spent on centre-backs.

phil thefluter24 · Dec 31, 2020

i know it sounds like a stuck record but we all knew ,except it seems the man who mattered, that the defence we had last season struggled so how on earth were they going to cut it in a higher lge?

PL2 3DQ · Dec 31, 2020

The defence of Sawyer, Canavan and Wootton had the most clean sheets in League Two last season and only two other teams conceded less goals so they deserved a chance this season albeit with a rookie keeper behind them.

Wootton didn't play much the last time we were in League One under Derek Adams, he only played nine games during that relegation season with only one of those games coming after September.
But he keeps getting blamed as being part of a poor defence.

January funds

slingsbypobble

jimsing

edengreen

philevs

PL2 3DQ

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Metal Green Mickey

Tugboat

xmastree

PL2 3DQ

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Metal Green Mickey

Knibbsworth

Daz

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WoodsyGreen

phil thefluter24

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