Frustration

mutley marvel":292v11iw said:

After watching our highlights on Quest last night & Dean Ashton saying it was not a penalty it brought me back to what i shouted at my laptop when the penalty was given-

"this is what you get when you have premier league kids playing in your team" i raged

For all their premier league schooling they are not taught the streetwise, savvy, below the belt tactics of seasoned pros to con & deceive the referee- maybe they should be given a manual on how it is done

RL alluded to it in his post match interview about not being savvy,streetwise & a bit naive in their decision making but after what Neil Dewsnip said in the virtual fan forum about how they go about recruiting young players/loanees - i seriously hope they have a serious rethink over the close season :think:

Click to expand...

Do you think Ryan Law, 2 months older than Lewis, is any more savvy and streetwise because he's learnt his football at Argyle rather than Liverpool? I doubt it.

xmastree":1r97rw5s said:

mutley marvel":1r97rw5s said:

After watching our highlights on Quest last night & Dean Ashton saying it was not a penalty it brought me back to what i shouted at my laptop when the penalty was given-

"this is what you get when you have premier league kids playing in your team" i raged

For all their premier league schooling they are not taught the streetwise, savvy, below the belt tactics of seasoned pros to con & deceive the referee- maybe they should be given a manual on how it is done

RL alluded to it in his post match interview about not being savvy,streetwise & a bit naive in their decision making but after what Neil Dewsnip said in the virtual fan forum about how they go about recruiting young players/loanees - i seriously hope they have a serious rethink over the close season :think:

Click to expand...

Do you think Ryan Law, 2 months older than Lewis, is any more savvy and streetwise because he's learnt his football at Argyle rather than Liverpool? I doubt it.

Click to expand...

I think you have answered your own question. We need experience in the team.

The answer isn't the players it's the officials.

Was never a penalty but the ref gave it, the ref was the one at fault.

About time they started retrospective fines for diving and an education system for refs.

Lincoln is a prime example, they dive every game and get penalties most games, surely someone in referee towers can look at the stats and warn the next ref they'll be diving.

oldage":dmuxzlpn said:

xmastree":dmuxzlpn said:

mutley marvel":dmuxzlpn said:

After watching our highlights on Quest last night & Dean Ashton saying it was not a penalty it brought me back to what i shouted at my laptop when the penalty was given-

"this is what you get when you have premier league kids playing in your team" i raged

For all their premier league schooling they are not taught the streetwise, savvy, below the belt tactics of seasoned pros to con & deceive the referee- maybe they should be given a manual on how it is done

RL alluded to it in his post match interview about not being savvy,streetwise & a bit naive in their decision making but after what Neil Dewsnip said in the virtual fan forum about how they go about recruiting young players/loanees - i seriously hope they have a serious rethink over the close season :think:

Click to expand...

Do you think Ryan Law, 2 months older than Lewis, is any more savvy and streetwise because he's learnt his football at Argyle rather than Liverpool? I doubt it.

Click to expand...

I think you have answered your own question. We need experience in the team.

Click to expand...

I think everyone agrees with that. However, experience (with sufficient quality) tends cost more than these young loanees. What you, or for that matter anyone else, fail to say is how that is going to be paid for.

oldage":2kyxqq9d said:

xmastree":2kyxqq9d said:

mutley marvel":2kyxqq9d said:

After watching our highlights on Quest last night & Dean Ashton saying it was not a penalty it brought me back to what i shouted at my laptop when the penalty was given-

"this is what you get when you have premier league kids playing in your team" i raged

For all their premier league schooling they are not taught the streetwise, savvy, below the belt tactics of seasoned pros to con & deceive the referee- maybe they should be given a manual on how it is done

RL alluded to it in his post match interview about not being savvy,streetwise & a bit naive in their decision making but after what Neil Dewsnip said in the virtual fan forum about how they go about recruiting young players/loanees - i seriously hope they have a serious rethink over the close season :think:

Click to expand...

Do you think Ryan Law, 2 months older than Lewis, is any more savvy and streetwise because he's learnt his football at Argyle rather than Liverpool? I doubt it.

Click to expand...

I think you have answered your own question. We need experience in the team.

Click to expand...

Experience like Mayor, Edwards and Camara? Who have all given away penalties this season...

Or like Canavan and Wootton? Who gave away goals through mistakes...

Quality, is what we need. "Experience" is a bonus if it comes attached.

Simon Hallett has repeatedly said he wants RL to take risks. I’ve always felt that recruitment is the biggest risk for any manager, because no matter how careful the selection process, you never really know that player’s strengths and weaknesses until he is with you. Look at some of the disasters we’ve had in the past with experienced pros who’ve seen Argyle as a final resting place, and consequently affected team morale and motivation. Everyone will quote Peter Swan as the prime example of how to get it wrong, despite the best intentions.

I know I’m a lone voice, but I think the current policy, for a club of our size and resources, is dead right. Yes, there will be lots of mistakes and frustrations from youngsters, but this is more than offset by the emergence of a Jephcot or an Ennis who, linked to experienced players like Mayor and Edwards, gives us the most attractive football we’ve had since the Shilton near-miss team. Add to that the potential to convert these players into cash and keep us solvent, with a decent academy to keep it happening, then our long term future will look very bright.

mervyn":2qhpfd11 said:

Simon Hallett has repeatedly said he wants RL to take risks. I’ve always felt that recruitment is the biggest risk for any manager, because no matter how careful the selection process, you never really know that player’s strengths and weaknesses until he is with you. Look at some of the disasters we’ve had in the past with experienced pros who’ve seen Argyle as a final resting place, and consequently affected team morale and motivation. Everyone will quote Peter Swan as the prime example of how to get it wrong, despite the best intentions.

I know I’m a lone voice, but I think the current policy, for a club of our size and resources, is dead right. Yes, there will be lots of mistakes and frustrations from youngsters, but this is more than offset by the emergence of a Jephcot or an Ennis who, linked to experienced players like Mayor and Edwards, gives us the most attractive football we’ve had since the Shilton near-miss team. Add to that the potential to convert these players into cash and keep us solvent, with a decent academy to keep it happening, then our long term future will look very bright.

Click to expand...

I agree completely, but there is a difference between this method with signing players permanently (i.e Ennis) and loaning them in. We're currently developing Premier League youngsters for someone else's benefit and in some cases at the detriment of our own young players. We hear a lot "they'll learn from it" etc, but what use is that to us if they are all playing for other clubs next season? For me, the loan system should be utilised to add quality to your squad that is otherwise unattainable. In that situation, you can't complain if they don't stay for more than one year. I think back to the likes of Paul Gallagher and Scott Sinclair. We'd have been hard pushed to sign players permanently of that level and they were key players for us, so the signings made complete sense. That isn't the case with any of the current crop of loanees, or most of the ones we've had in recent years to be honest, so I find it difficult to get on board with the "they're learning" stick, even if it is true. I think Adam Lewis/Ryan Law are the perfect example. On the brief showings I've seen, I think Law has performed well. I would much rather be giving him minutes at this stage to improve his game and see if he has what it takes to become our permanent left back. Lewis, on his brief showings, needs far too much development to be recruited permanently. Lowe's system desperately needs wing backs of good quality, as Edwards is showing on the right and Lewis is a way off that level due to his inconsistency and defensive shortcomings.

The good news, is the way we play and the relationship we have across the management structure with other clubs will hopefully see us become a premium destination to attract the best quality of youngsters on loan. However, I do hope that we place more focus on permanent additions, supplemented by our own young players, providing they're of the right level.

I see nothing wrong with recruiting from Premier League clubs, we need to be patient, these players have been wrapped in cotton wool playing in the under 23's, it must be a shock playing profesional football all of a sudden. Fornt leah was awful when he first arrived and now we are calling to sign him if we can, Cooper was another although I am not convinced by him, Lewis, Woods and Watts will become good players. Lewis needs to learn the art of defending as a LWB. what is letting him down at the momemt is he tends to be rash in tackles, his eagerness to get forward is leaving space for his marker to get in behind him. Personally I would sign the three and develop them. We are not blessed with an owner who is prepared to throw hundreds of millions at the club so for me it is what it is, and make the most of what we have.

charlieboy":3lb64gbs said:

I see nothing wrong with recruiting from Premier League clubs, we need to be patient, these players have been wrapped in cotton wool playing in the under 23's, it must be a shock playing profesional football all of a sudden. Fornt leah was awful when he first arrived and now we are calling to sign him if we can, Cooper was another although I am not convinced by him, Lewis, Woods and Watts will become good players. Lewis needs to learn the art of defending as a LWB. what is letting him down at the momemt is he tends to be rash in tackles, his eagerness to get forward is leaving space for his marker to get in behind him. Personally I would sign the three and develop them. We are not blessed with an owner who is prepared to throw hundreds of millions at the club so for me it is what it is, and make the most of what we have.

Click to expand...

You see nothing wrong recruiting Prem players? You have ignored everything in the previous post. And Cooper was from Peterborough not the Prem.
Its hit and miss. Some do add quality. Opoku has definitely been an asset. Woods looks good.
On the whole I think we should loan players we have a chance of signing permanently.

The Simon Hallett/Neil Dewsnip/Ryan Lowe team and their ideas are relatively new and will need time to flourish. They/we want the academy to work enabling gifted young players to emerge that are both skillful and have the right professional attributes. I quote Michael Copper as an example of a local lad who matches this requirement. The academy has recently been altered to allow this sort of development to occur so we need to be patient to see the next success story.

If a young player isn't quite ready for our 1st team selection then he should get playing time elsewhere in a lower league as putting him in too early and him being constantly criticised for making mistakes (by PASOTI fans in particular(?!)) could seriously affect his confidence and his future.

If we haven'y got a young player able to fill a role in the team then bringing in a loan player is the right thing to do. It may be for a season only, if we have our own player being prepared to step up in the near future. The loan of a young player could change to become a permanent deal if he fits the bill and possibly out of contract.

I think our squad needs to be enhanced in the next year or two as we are currently playing players out of their normal position due to injuries and also a suspension. For a young player this could prove to be difficult and may make mistakes. I believe our coaching staff are very good at giving them the necessary encouragement to bounce back.

When we reach a safe points total in League 1, I believe we will see our younger players being selected and I am looking forward to see how they cope amongst seasoned professionals from Argyle and the opposition, who might be challenging for promotion or seeking to avoid relegation.

We need to be patient and be witness to future successes of players, matches and campaigns.

COYGs.
Fawlty

Willis88":1vhpenyl said:

The answer isn't the players it's the officials.

Was never a penalty but the ref gave it, the ref was the one at fault.

About time they started retrospective fines for diving and an education system for refs.

Lincoln is a prime example, they dive every game and get penalties most games, surely someone in referee towers can look at the stats and warn the next ref they'll be diving.

Click to expand...

Interesting that since we beat them and their main penalty “threat” Jorge Grant hobbled off to end his season they have haven’t had a single penalty and they’ve one won a single game from seven. Luck and gamesmanship does have a habit of catching up with you it seems.

tavigreen":2bjq9a1v said:

Willis88":2bjq9a1v said:

The answer isn't the players it's the officials.

Was never a penalty but the ref gave it, the ref was the one at fault.

About time they started retrospective fines for diving and an education system for refs.

Lincoln is a prime example, they dive every game and get penalties most games, surely someone in referee towers can look at the stats and warn the next ref they'll be diving.

Click to expand...

Interesting that since we beat them and their main penalty “threat” Jorge Grant hobbled off to end his season they have haven’t had a single penalty and they’ve one won a single game from seven. Luck and gamesmanship does have a habit of catching up with you it seems.

Click to expand...

:lol:

i think you'll find he takes the pens but its the Forest lad who's the diver. Maybe the refs have wised up.