Our Player Targets

Sideline Sam · Apr 12, 2021

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

philevs · Apr 12, 2021

Sideline Sam":1f6gtraj said:
It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Agreed.
Seems to me that RL’s recent criticising of the players might in part be his wish to make a case to the directors for increased funds next season, on the basis that the players he can get with his present budget are just not up to it.
Not sure I agree with this, and it seems to me all too easy to blame poor performances solely on the players.

xmastree · Apr 12, 2021

Sideline Sam":3uqb76qe said:
It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

A major reason we are offering longer term contracts to the likes of Cooper (G) and Hardie is because we paid a fee (a risk in itself) and we want our money's worth. Ideally we want more than that, by developing these players and selling at a profit.

In terms of it being very difficult for a rookie manager, it's not as difficult if you've got an experienced DoF to handle a lot of it for you.

Incidentally, how long before Lowe sheds the "rookie" and "young manager" tags? He's ending his 3rd season as a manager (with caretaker experience before that), and is 42. Rookie, in sporting terms, often refers to the first year, and there are a number of younger managers in L1. These terms appear sometimes to be trotted out as an excuse for any failings of Lowe, and to imply that Club are handicapped by having such a novice. Lowe was chosen ahead of more experienced candidates 2 years ago, and should be judged as a manager, not as an apprentice.

Sideline Sam · Apr 12, 2021

Ok maybe you say he’s not a rookie but he’s certainly not that experienced! He’s had a couple of seasons in league 3 and his first in league 2. Our handicap is our location and our budget compared to most top sides in this league! So maybe given those facts a manager only in his 3rd full season and his 1st in league 2 is going to struggle a bit! Judge him and the board this time next year I say!
Also are we going to get our monies worth and sell them on at a profit? You probable couldn’t give Hardie away at the moment! And yes I was glad we signed him at the time now I realise I know nothing compared to the experienced management at Blackpool!

Forest of Dean Green · Apr 12, 2021

xmastree":3b1t9u7q said:
Sideline Sam":3b1t9u7q said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

A major reason we are offering longer term contracts to the likes of Cooper (G) and Hardie is because we paid a fee (a risk in itself) and we want our money's worth. Ideally we want more than that, by developing these players and selling at a profit.

In terms of it being very difficult for a rookie manager, it's not as difficult if you've got an experienced DoF to handle a lot of it for you.

Incidentally, how long before Lowe sheds the "rookie" and "young manager" tags? He's ending his 3rd season as a manager (with caretaker experience before that), and is 42. Rookie, in sporting terms, often refers to the first year, and there are a number of younger managers in L1. These terms appear sometimes to be trotted out as an excuse for any failings of Lowe, and to imply that Club are handicapped by having such a novice. Lowe was chosen ahead of more experienced candidates 2 years ago, and should be judged as a manager, not as an apprentice.

On Cooper and Hardie, the gamble is also that through effective coaching we can improve players that we own and then realise value. It all links to the data stuff. By combining data with an ability to improve players, we build asset value. We will see whether that works as it effectively places a lot of trust in your coaching team to add value that another coach would not. And that is in a context where (if you take Hallett’s moneyball philosophy) most teams revert to a mean of performance based on salaries they play players. In effect, most coaches make little long term difference to team performance. He’s clearly hoping that Lowe will do so, will learn and will add value. Yet to see that with Hardie. We will see with Cooper.

mervyn · Apr 12, 2021

Sideline Sam":2sians4g said:
It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

I don’t buy this old location chestnut. Are we any more inconveniently located than Hull, Norwich or Swansea? RL has regularly stated the benefits of our location, and I believe he meant it. We also know he has no qualms with the budget, a subject that’s been done to death on here, so I won’t repeat it. I therefore can’t believe he’s forced into giving long term contracts as a consequence.

xmastree · Apr 12, 2021

Forest of Dean Green":jb8yb1e8 said:
xmastree":jb8yb1e8 said:

Sideline Sam":jb8yb1e8 said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

A major reason we are offering longer term contracts to the likes of Cooper (G) and Hardie is because we paid a fee (a risk in itself) and we want our money's worth. Ideally we want more than that, by developing these players and selling at a profit.

In terms of it being very difficult for a rookie manager, it's not as difficult if you've got an experienced DoF to handle a lot of it for you.

Incidentally, how long before Lowe sheds the "rookie" and "young manager" tags? He's ending his 3rd season as a manager (with caretaker experience before that), and is 42. Rookie, in sporting terms, often refers to the first year, and there are a number of younger managers in L1. These terms appear sometimes to be trotted out as an excuse for any failings of Lowe, and to imply that Club are handicapped by having such a novice. Lowe was chosen ahead of more experienced candidates 2 years ago, and should be judged as a manager, not as an apprentice.

Click to expand...

On Cooper and Hardie, the gamble is also that through effective coaching we can improve players that we own and then realise value. It all links to the data stuff. By combining data with an ability to improve players, we build asset value. We will see whether that works as it effectively places a lot of trust in your coaching team to add value that another coach would not. And that is in a context where (if you take Hallett’s moneyball philosophy) most teams revert to a mean of performance based on salaries they play players. In effect, most coaches make little long term difference to team performance. He’s clearly hoping that Lowe will do so, will learn and will add value. Yet to see that with Hardie. We will see with Cooper.

Yes, that was what I was touching on, but you've explained it much better!

You sound confident about Cooper, hopefully you are right. One factor is what we paid for him /them in the first place. I haven't heard any figures though, despite always being undisclosed at the time of the deal, they tend to become public knowledge eventually.

EyeOpener · Apr 12, 2021

mervyn":2oa4843n said:
Sideline Sam":2oa4843n said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

I don’t buy this old location chestnut. Are we any more inconveniently located than Hull, Norwich or Swansea? RL has regularly stated the benefits of our location, and I believe he meant it. We also know he has no qualms with the budget, a subject that’s been done to death on here, so I won’t repeat it. I therefore can’t believe he’s forced into giving long term contracts as a consequence.

He has hasn't he. Do you know if he's moved his family down here yet or is this another example of him saying what you want to hear and hoping you'll believe it....which it seems you have. As far as I'm aware he still hasn't moved them down which is surprising considering what he says about the place.

Anyway, its irrelevant what Ryan Lowe thinks about the location when it comes to recruitment. What is important is what the players and their families think of the location or more importantly can we pay the big bucks. If the players and families dont fancy the South West or we cant pay big bucks then I don't think the better players will come here. Look at Danny Mayor. If the stories about his salary are anywhere near to being correct then I'm pretty sure he didn't come down here for the location and show such real commitment by opting for one year Contracts.

Forest of Dean Green · Apr 12, 2021

xmastree":2m6a19kx said:
Forest of Dean Green":2m6a19kx said:

xmastree":2m6a19kx said:

Sideline Sam":2m6a19kx said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

A major reason we are offering longer term contracts to the likes of Cooper (G) and Hardie is because we paid a fee (a risk in itself) and we want our money's worth. Ideally we want more than that, by developing these players and selling at a profit.

In terms of it being very difficult for a rookie manager, it's not as difficult if you've got an experienced DoF to handle a lot of it for you.

Incidentally, how long before Lowe sheds the "rookie" and "young manager" tags? He's ending his 3rd season as a manager (with caretaker experience before that), and is 42. Rookie, in sporting terms, often refers to the first year, and there are a number of younger managers in L1. These terms appear sometimes to be trotted out as an excuse for any failings of Lowe, and to imply that Club are handicapped by having such a novice. Lowe was chosen ahead of more experienced candidates 2 years ago, and should be judged as a manager, not as an apprentice.

Click to expand...

On Cooper and Hardie, the gamble is also that through effective coaching we can improve players that we own and then realise value. It all links to the data stuff. By combining data with an ability to improve players, we build asset value. We will see whether that works as it effectively places a lot of trust in your coaching team to add value that another coach would not. And that is in a context where (if you take Hallett’s moneyball philosophy) most teams revert to a mean of performance based on salaries they play players. In effect, most coaches make little long term difference to team performance. He’s clearly hoping that Lowe will do so, will learn and will add value. Yet to see that with Hardie. We will see with Cooper.

Click to expand...

Yes, that was what I was touching on, but you've explained it much better!

You sound confident about Cooper, hopefully you are right. One factor is what we paid for him /them in the first place. I haven't heard any figures though, despite always being undisclosed at the time of the deal, they tend to become public knowledge eventually.

Personally, I’m not sure about Cooper. Certainly not at LWB and in any team with Mayor you end up with attacking intent but less structure. Don’t know what you thought but he looked way off pace on LG1 before injury than he did in LG2? I’m yet to be convinced and they will need to do a good coaching job on him. Peterborough clearly didn’t see it in him

oldage · Apr 12, 2021

mervyn":3je8fwo5 said:
Sideline Sam":3je8fwo5 said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

I don’t buy this old location chestnut. Are we any more inconveniently located than Hull, Norwich or Swansea? RL has regularly stated the benefits of our location, and I believe he meant it. We also know he has no qualms with the budget, a subject that’s been done to death on here, so I won’t repeat it. I therefore can’t believe he’s forced into giving long term contracts as a consequence.

I agree with your view. Our location should be an advantage.Away from the smoke ,great place to live and a decent football club.If you believe what Lowe tells us players are queuing up to join us.

slingsbypobble · Apr 12, 2021

Sideline Sam":1n2lbifl said:
It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

I agree it's a tough job and don't envy Lowe, however it's his judgement and contacts that PAFC are paying for so I hope things improve.

As for Hardie I didn't really understand the fanfare about signing him earlier this year. I've not see anything that tells me he's better than Ennis or Jephcott over the course of a season. Indeed he's had a few iffy games where his positioning and shooting have left a lot to be desired.

I'm really hoping for some decent signings in the summer, starting with defenders but also CDM and possibly another creative midfielder if/when Mayor gets injured or goes off the boil.

That's what I want, but realistically I think it will be more from the loan lottery with perhaps one or two genuine signings.

mutley marvel · Apr 12, 2021

RL has got the gift of the gab & can talk the hind legs of a donkey but he has no mute button & does not know when to stop .

If he says there are a queue of players wanting to join i will believe it when i see it

I think the 1st movement we will see will be our own players re-signing before any new players walk through the doors

I dont think he will repeat the Fadz situation of last close season when he probably gave him far to many extensions of deadline dates for it to result in Fadz going elsewhere & RL missing the boat in finding a suitable replacement

Due to COVID Out of contract players will not have mega offers on the table (but that wont stop their agents looking out for their best interests) & the best possible deal for their player but hopefully it will not be a long drawn out affair & we are able to get our business done before they start pre season

All i am hoping for is that our permanent signings are an improvement on the players that leave the building at the end of the season & that we are able to get the men that RL mentioned at the weekend

Whoever comes through the door i will welcome them

doozer · Apr 12, 2021

Pottypilgrim":h38cwpz1 said:
mervyn":h38cwpz1 said:

Sideline Sam":h38cwpz1 said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

I don’t buy this old location chestnut. Are we any more inconveniently located than Hull, Norwich or Swansea? RL has regularly stated the benefits of our location, and I believe he meant it. We also know he has no qualms with the budget, a subject that’s been done to death on here, so I won’t repeat it. I therefore can’t believe he’s forced into giving long term contracts as a consequence.

Click to expand...

He has hasn't he. Do you know if he's moved his family down here yet or is this another example of him saying what you want to hear and hoping you'll believe it....which it seems you have. As far as I'm aware he still hasn't moved them down which is surprising considering what he says about the place.

Anyway, its irrelevant what Ryan Lowe thinks about the location when it comes to recruitment. What is important is what the players and their families think of the location or more importantly can we pay the big bucks. If the players and families dont fancy the South West or we cant pay big bucks then I don't think the better players will come here. Look at Danny Mayor. If the stories about his salary are anywhere near to being correct then I'm pretty sure he didn't come down here for the location and show such real commitment by opting for one year Contracts.

I don’t understand this obsession of whether or not lowes wife and children are living in Plymouth , I couldn’t care less.....the only thing I’m interested in are results and performances .
What’s the average time a manager stays in a job ? 2 years.? ...would you want to disrupt your child’s education by moving schools every couple of years ? I know I wouldn’t...

WoodsyGreen · Apr 12, 2021

mervyn":3az2u1un said:
Sideline Sam":3az2u1un said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

I don’t buy this old location chestnut. Are we any more inconveniently located than Hull, Norwich or Swansea? RL has regularly stated the benefits of our location, and I believe he meant it. We also know he has no qualms with the budget, a subject that’s been done to death on here, so I won’t repeat it. I therefore can’t believe he’s forced into giving long term contracts as a consequence.

It's not an old chestnut.

Or do you think there's some other reason why we're (apparently) the largest city in Europe never to have had a top-flight club?

EyeOpener · Apr 12, 2021

doozer":1rhyjq7k said:
Pottypilgrim":1rhyjq7k said:

mervyn":1rhyjq7k said:

Sideline Sam":1rhyjq7k said:

It would be interesting to know how many of our first choice transfer targets actually turn us down! I imagine quite a lot making it very difficult to actually get a team capable of taking us up the league.
Ryan Lowe is probably a bit taken aback on how difficult is is with his budget and our location!
So we are offering longer term contracts to get players in to compensate for above reasons!
This is a huge gamble if things don’t work out!
Hence would anybody be screaming to sign Hardie given what we’ve seen this season!
Same goes for Cooper, ok he’s got a bad injury but he wasn’t the same player start of this season that finished last season!
Very difficult for a rookie manager to deal with!

Click to expand...

I don’t buy this old location chestnut. Are we any more inconveniently located than Hull, Norwich or Swansea? RL has regularly stated the benefits of our location, and I believe he meant it. We also know he has no qualms with the budget, a subject that’s been done to death on here, so I won’t repeat it. I therefore can’t believe he’s forced into giving long term contracts as a consequence.

Click to expand...

He has hasn't he. Do you know if he's moved his family down here yet or is this another example of him saying what you want to hear and hoping you'll believe it....which it seems you have. As far as I'm aware he still hasn't moved them down which is surprising considering what he says about the place.

Anyway, its irrelevant what Ryan Lowe thinks about the location when it comes to recruitment. What is important is what the players and their families think of the location or more importantly can we pay the big bucks. If the players and families dont fancy the South West or we cant pay big bucks then I don't think the better players will come here. Look at Danny Mayor. If the stories about his salary are anywhere near to being correct then I'm pretty sure he didn't come down here for the location and show such real commitment by opting for one year Contracts.

Click to expand...

I don’t understand this obsession of whether or not lowes wife and children are living in Plymouth , I couldn’t care less.....the only thing I’m interested in are results and performances .
What’s the average time a manager stays in a job ? 2 years.? ...would you want to disrupt your child’s education by moving schools every couple of years ? I know I wouldn’t...

Then perhaps he shouldn't say that he is moving his family down here. Its just another example of him just saying what we want to hear. At best its disingenuous, at worst its a bleddy lie and an insult to all those he says it too including our Chairman. It also says a lot about his credibility or rather, lack of. He is full of sound bytes.