Our location a problem? I don't think so.

mervyn · May 4, 2021

Across all the pasoti forums, whatever the subject, someone inevitably brings out the routine, repetitive location problem when trying to attract new signings, and I do feel it’s time to seriously question this.

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost. They don’t believe a 3 hour drive from London or the Midlands makes us inaccessible. People from these regions regularly visit here as a day trip. We’re becoming more Americanised in our attitude to longer journeys. We’re a small island, and nowhere in England is too far away. For the past ten years more people have moved to Devon and Cornwall than to any other region. Do they feel cut off from the friends and family they moved away from? Off course not.

I’ve spoken to four Argyle players who left other regions to come here, and the attractions of raising families here, the lifestyle, house prices and local schooling were all big draws.

I don’t want to antagonise anyone, but is this simply a view by born and bred Devonians who’ve never moved away, and are happy to subscribe to the ‘outpost’ view of our region. A view which isn’t held by the thousands like me who moved here, and are glad they did.

Two years ago I checked all this out in mid season by studying the new arrivals/departures headers on the fan forums for Swansea, Hull, Norwich and even Carlisle. None of these is any less isolated geographically than us. I couldn’t find one single fan’s concern about their club’s location or the difficulty it might pose in signing players. Three of those clubs have recent Prem experience to further prove the point.

So, it’s a genuine question. Do we really have a problem, or is it just one of those ‘same old Argo’ excuses that gets trotted out?

WoodsyGreen · May 4, 2021

If our location isn't a problem then we must be the unluckiest club on planet Earth. Sixty-five teams have played in the top flight of English football but the country's 17th largest football city isn't one of them? That must be some gypsy curse.

Look at a list of smaller football cities than Plymouth (pedants: I'm sure official population figures vary): Stoke-on-Trent, Wolverhampton, Derby, Swansea, Southampton, Portsmouth, Oxford, Preston, Norwich.

All of those cities are apparently smaller than Plymouth but have enjoyed more success than we have, in some cases significantly more success. What is it they have that we don't?

Location may not be the only factor but it's sure as hell a significant one.

One more point:

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost.

Yet they still moved away.

Knibbsworth · May 4, 2021

London isn't a 3 hour drive to Plymouth. Getting to the West End from the centre takes about an hour itself!

You simply would never pop to Cornwall for a day out if you were from London.

Darren Purse used to play for Argyle and live in London, and used to get the night train so he could sleep.

mervyn · May 4, 2021

WoodsyGreen":20ekx65l said:
If our location isn't a problem then we must be the unluckiest club on planet Earth. Sixty-five teams have played in the top flight of English football but the country's 17th largest football city isn't one of them? That must be some gypsy curse.

Look at a list of smaller football cities than Plymouth (pedants: I'm sure official population figures vary): Stoke-on-Trent, Wolverhampton, Derby, Swansea, Southampton, Portsmouth, Oxford, Preston, Norwich.

All of those cities are apparently smaller than Plymouth but have enjoyed more success than we have, in some cases significantly more success. What is it they have that we don't?

Location may not be the only factor but it's sure as hell a significant one.

One more point:

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost.

Click to expand...

Yet they still moved away.

To study abroad. Once qualified they returned to where their skills were most wanted in the UK. Nothing to do with Devon as a location.

argobenz · May 4, 2021

Of course it's a problem for football reasons.

Scouts can cover multiple teams in various leagues in other areas so we don't see most young talent in the major football areas.

Mangers can pop out for a few hours to see the teams they are due to face and still be home at a sensible hour.

Players can be close to their home, family and friends with a multitude of leagues to play in.

Even our manager can't get his family to move or doesn't want them to.

Long way for loan players to commute for a relatively short period.

No airport, one road out, one train line.

Personally I love living in Plymouth, but I've had to work around the travel problems which I have done most of my working life.

Paranoid Android · May 4, 2021

Agreed, the historical facts speak for themselves. There will always be exceptions to the rule, like Sturrock managed limited success once but couldn’t replicate it. Certain managers like Hollowords and Mariner might have attracted some by their reputation only. But for the majority we have struggled to recruit the best because we are in football terms out of touch.

It’s reality, but I’m sure every Chairman and Manager try their hardest to attract the right players. If they don’t come that’s something we have no control over. Halletts astute and realised we must have a top academy to compete long term. That why them up the road keep consistently punching above their weight, like it or not.

We can only do our best, and I trust our Chairman is doing all he can to make the Club attractive to players, despite the location. That’s why I have to pause before criticising the manager and players on recruitment, In the back of my head I’m thinking...I don’t know if they were first choice or fifth choice on the wish list.

oldage · May 4, 2021

mervyn":3lp9f6xs said:
Across all the pasoti forums, whatever the subject, someone inevitably brings out the routine, repetitive location problem when trying to attract new signings, and I do feel it’s time to seriously question this.

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost. They don’t believe a 3 hour drive from London or the Midlands makes us inaccessible. People from these regions regularly visit here as a day trip. We’re becoming more Americanised in our attitude to longer journeys. We’re a small island, and nowhere in England is too far away. For the past ten years more people have moved to Devon and Cornwall than to any other region. Do they feel cut off from the friends and family they moved away from? Off course not.

I’ve spoken to four Argyle players who left other regions to come here, and the attractions of raising families here, the lifestyle, house prices and local schooling were all big draws.

I don’t want to antagonise anyone, but is this simply a view by born and bred Devonians who’ve never moved away, and are happy to subscribe to the ‘outpost’ view of our region. A view which isn’t held by the thousands like me who moved here, and are glad they did.

Two years ago I checked all this out in mid season by studying the new arrivals/departures headers on the fan forums for Swansea, Hull, Norwich and even Carlisle. None of these is any less isolated geographically than us. I couldn’t find one single fan’s concern about their club’s location or the difficulty it might pose in signing players. Three of those clubs have recent Prem experience to further prove the point.

So, it’s a genuine question. Do we really have a problem, or is it just one of those ‘same old Argo’ excuses that gets trotted out?

I tend to agree with you. When I worked in recruitment for an international company in Cornwall job seekers saw Bristol as the southwest and anything beyond was not considered by a number of agencies.However once candidates came to us for interviews and saw us and the region we rarely had any problems in recruiting.

Paranoid Android · May 4, 2021

oldage":24865q77 said:
mervyn":24865q77 said:

Across all the pasoti forums, whatever the subject, someone inevitably brings out the routine, repetitive location problem when trying to attract new signings, and I do feel it’s time to seriously question this.

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost. They don’t believe a 3 hour drive from London or the Midlands makes us inaccessible. People from these regions regularly visit here as a day trip. We’re becoming more Americanised in our attitude to longer journeys. We’re a small island, and nowhere in England is too far away. For the past ten years more people have moved to Devon and Cornwall than to any other region. Do they feel cut off from the friends and family they moved away from? Off course not.

I’ve spoken to four Argyle players who left other regions to come here, and the attractions of raising families here, the lifestyle, house prices and local schooling were all big draws.

I don’t want to antagonise anyone, but is this simply a view by born and bred Devonians who’ve never moved away, and are happy to subscribe to the ‘outpost’ view of our region. A view which isn’t held by the thousands like me who moved here, and are glad they did.

Two years ago I checked all this out in mid season by studying the new arrivals/departures headers on the fan forums for Swansea, Hull, Norwich and even Carlisle. None of these is any less isolated geographically than us. I couldn’t find one single fan’s concern about their club’s location or the difficulty it might pose in signing players. Three of those clubs have recent Prem experience to further prove the point.

So, it’s a genuine question. Do we really have a problem, or is it just one of those ‘same old Argo’ excuses that gets trotted out?

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. When I worked in recruitment for an international company in Cornwall job seekers saw Bristol as the southwest and anything beyond was not considered by a number of agencies.However once candidates came to us for interviews and saw us and the region we rarely had any problems in recruiting.

Different world Oldage. How many of your recruits were on 1 or 2 year contracts within a short professional career 15 years max, and had to face relocating their families again? That’s the sticking point. We are an outpost in the football network. We’re the last major city on the train network, no airport, no density of other clubs around us. That’s the challenge, as I see it.

EyeOpener · May 4, 2021

mervyn":wukkamul said:
Across all the pasoti forums, whatever the subject, someone inevitably brings out the routine, repetitive location problem when trying to attract new signings, and I do feel it’s time to seriously question this.

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost. They don’t believe a 3 hour drive from London or the Midlands makes us inaccessible. People from these regions regularly visit here as a day trip. We’re becoming more Americanised in our attitude to longer journeys. We’re a small island, and nowhere in England is too far away. For the past ten years more people have moved to Devon and Cornwall than to any other region. Do they feel cut off from the friends and family they moved away from? Off course not.

I’ve spoken to four Argyle players who left other regions to come here, and the attractions of raising families here, the lifestyle, house prices and local schooling were all big draws.

I don’t want to antagonise anyone, but is this simply a view by born and bred Devonians who’ve never moved away, and are happy to subscribe to the ‘outpost’ view of our region. A view which isn’t held by the thousands like me who moved here, and are glad they did.

Two years ago I checked all this out in mid season by studying the new arrivals/departures headers on the fan forums for Swansea, Hull, Norwich and even Carlisle. None of these is any less isolated geographically than us. I couldn’t find one single fan’s concern about their club’s location or the difficulty it might pose in signing players. Three of those clubs have recent Prem experience to further prove the point.

So, it’s a genuine question. Do we really have a problem, or is it just one of those ‘same old Argo’ excuses that gets trotted out?

Which is Chudleigh I presume? Couldn't quite bring yourself to move that extra 45 minutes down the road?

I believe that our location does count against us, however, if we are willing to pay over the top in wages then players are more likely to come e.g. Danny Mayor. Having said that, we couldn't even tempt one of our own (Joe Mason) back because we couldn't pay enough apparently.

Our most recent successful time came when we had a team of Hungarians and Frenchmen which in itself demonstrates the lengths we have to go too in order to attract decent players. I guess though that as we're now using data to recruit, this option is off the table as we probably dont pay the upgrade fee required to have access to European player stats.

Players with a decent pedigree that do join us have either suffered major injuries or have fallen by the wayside for one reason or another and are looking for a way back into football e.g. Reeves, MacLeod, Edwards, Lameiras, Beglin, MacNamee, Ladapo, Quinn, Djokovic and possibly even Ennis falls into this category. There are countless others that I'm sure people could add.

Also, as someone has already mentioned, our own manager cant bring his family down despite saying on a couple of occasions that he is. If the manager cant sell it to his own family then what chance do we have of the players doing so.

mervyn · May 4, 2021

Pottypilgrim":qbtqxtbp said:
mervyn":qbtqxtbp said:

Across all the pasoti forums, whatever the subject, someone inevitably brings out the routine, repetitive location problem when trying to attract new signings, and I do feel it’s time to seriously question this.

My children, who’ve moved away, and older grandchildren, simply don’t see Devon as an outpost. They don’t believe a 3 hour drive from London or the Midlands makes us inaccessible. People from these regions regularly visit here as a day trip. We’re becoming more Americanised in our attitude to longer journeys. We’re a small island, and nowhere in England is too far away. For the past ten years more people have moved to Devon and Cornwall than to any other region. Do they feel cut off from the friends and family they moved away from? Off course not.

I’ve spoken to four Argyle players who left other regions to come here, and the attractions of raising families here, the lifestyle, house prices and local schooling were all big draws.

I don’t want to antagonise anyone, but is this simply a view by born and bred Devonians who’ve never moved away, and are happy to subscribe to the ‘outpost’ view of our region. A view which isn’t held by the thousands like me who moved here, and are glad they did.

Two years ago I checked all this out in mid season by studying the new arrivals/departures headers on the fan forums for Swansea, Hull, Norwich and even Carlisle. None of these is any less isolated geographically than us. I couldn’t find one single fan’s concern about their club’s location or the difficulty it might pose in signing players. Three of those clubs have recent Prem experience to further prove the point.

So, it’s a genuine question. Do we really have a problem, or is it just one of those ‘same old Argo’ excuses that gets trotted out?

Click to expand...

Which is Chudleigh I presume? Couldn't quite bring yourself to move that extra 45 minutes down the road?

I believe that our location does count against us, however, if we are willing to pay over the top in wages then players are more likely to come e.g. Danny Mayor. Having said that, we couldn't even tempt one of our own (Joe Mason) back because we couldn't pay enough apparently.

Our most recent successful time came when we had a team of Hungarians and Frenchmen which in itself demonstrates the lengths we have to go too in order to attract decent players. I guess though that as we're now using data to recruit, this option is off the table as we probably dont pay the upgrade fee required to have access to European player stats.

Players with a decent pedigree that do join us have either suffered major injuries or have fallen by the wayside for one reason or another and are looking for a way back into football e.g. Reeves, MacLeod, Edwards, Lameiras, Beglin, MacNamee, Ladapo, Quinn, Djokovic and possibly even Ennis falls into this category. There are countless others that I'm sure people could add.

Also, as someone has already mentioned, our own manager cant bring his family down despite saying on a couple of occasions that he is. If the manager cant sell it to his own family then what chance do we have of the players doing so.

Your opening para is unworthy of you Potty. You can do better than that.

oke buoy · May 4, 2021

It doesn't seem to be a problem for Exeter chiefs

Paranoid Android · May 4, 2021

oke buoy":3ajs5sn5 said:
It doesn't seem to be a problem for Exeter chiefs

No, wonder why? Have a think about it and come back to us. I can think of a few.

dunlop · May 4, 2021

I attended most of Ryan Lowe QA , the question came up in the meetings “is our location a problem” he said “ no I have players phoning me all the time wanting to play down here”

greenpilled · May 4, 2021

oke buoy":328wv9dg said:
It doesn't seem to be a problem for Exeter chiefs

The relevant lesson from the Exeter Chiefs is that they have a core of half a dozen or so England international players who were born and raised in Devon and Cornwall.

Having such a huge catchment area more or less entirely to ourselves is the locational advantage that would massively outweigh the disadvantage of being out on a limb, if we could start bringing through the best players in the region.

Getting this right is the key to establishing ourselves as an upper championship/PL club.

Pettgreen · May 4, 2021

It is a problem IMO. My wife who is proper Yorkshire bred has always said it's too far away to live as a visit to the relatives is 4hrs + in the car.
Many players do think twice over coming down this far. Upping sticks and settling down invariably with young families is a huge move. With too few talent emerging locally then it's always going to be an issue. Football is transient at the best of times so attracting a player outside of the lure of vast wages will always be an obstacle.

Funny however, that we always attract Jocks for managers. Must be the summer weather compared to the grim wastes of the north!!

Our location a problem? I don't think so.

mervyn

WoodsyGreen

Knibbsworth

mervyn

argobenz

Paranoid Android

Guest

oldage

Paranoid Android

Guest

EyeOpener

mervyn

oke buoy

Paranoid Android

Guest

dunlop

greenpilled

Pettgreen