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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:20 pm
Fat_green_belly wrote:
Balham_Green wrote:
Is it so hard to accept we were not good enough? Croatia out -footballed us after half time and have four world class players. How many do we have?

Its not the defeat BG but the manner of the defeat. We didnt do ourselves justice.
We can do a lot better than this. I witnessed it in qualifying and against the world champions etc. Albeit friendlies.



Come off it. Almost everybody recognizes we OVER ACHIEVED. We don't have a Modric in Midfield to pull the strings. Count how many Champions League medals Croatia have. Wake up and smell the coffee. Who did we play in the qualifiers?


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:21 am
Biggs wrote:
The World Cup by definition is more special than the Premier League and Champions League.

There's really nothing quite like it, and this tournament has been magical at times.

I agree it has been a fantastic tournament and I have been glued to the TV, I doubt there are few people on the planet who have watched more games than me but what the most important competition is is down to personal choice. For me and I assume most on this site the most important competition in world football is League One of the EFL but if I had to choose to do without one of the Premier League, the Champions League or the World Cup then for me would be a no-brainer; the World Cup for the simple reason it only comes round once every four years


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:21 am
Balham_Green wrote:
Fat_green_belly wrote:
Balham_Green wrote:
Is it so hard to accept we were not good enough? Croatia out -footballed us after half time and have four world class players. How many do we have?

Its not the defeat BG but the manner of the defeat. We didnt do ourselves justice.
We can do a lot better than this. I witnessed it in qualifying and against the world champions etc. Albeit friendlies.



Come off it. Almost everybody recognizes we OVER ACHIEVED. We don't have a Modric in Midfield to pull the strings. Count how many Champions League medals Croatia have. Wake up and smell the coffee. Who did we play in the qualifiers?

I wouldn't say we over achieved considering the draw we had but we definitely started second favourites for the game last night and would have over achieved had we won.


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:21 am
up_the_line wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
There is no English Mentality issue.

There is an England Experience issue.

The squad had very in the way of personnel with real big, later stage, tournament.
Similarly, notably the (slight) error for the winning goal was that of a player (Stones), who is a bit part player for his domestic team.
This has been picked up on another thread, but England don't just have to play against another XI, they have to struggle against a domestic league that provides scant opportunity for young English players to cut their teeth in high-level football. A number of last night's players had spent time out on loan at lower league teams whilst their parent clubs employ an import in their position. Some of them have had arduous pathways back into top flight football after being previously discarded. The positive is that people from around the nation identified with the players more, the negative is that they are several stages behind their opponents who learn their trade in league (most obviously our own) and European competition against the best.
The 90s and the advent of Sky, pumping their glamorous product into houses across the country almost incessantly reduced the need to wait 4 years for a chance of football glory. It means legions of armchair supporters who can watch their 'adopted' team almost continually without every having to brave Merseyside or Moss Side. They can bask in the neon glory of their superstars on weekly basis - who needs England every 4 years when you can watch the Gooners put 4 past Stoke or Swansea or West Brom? These glory-hunters (there is no other term) fund Sky, who fund the Premier league teams and that money has attracted the wealthiest of the wealthy to further bask in their own glory and further expand the already bloated transfer kitties of the top tier.
And because their 'consumers' demand to see their team sweep up all silverware in their wake so that they have bragging rights at the local these clubs are under pressure to fill their team photos with the very best, ready made, winners. This means a constant European merry-go round of players. And whilst this includes the brightest domestic prospects being hoovered up by the top clubs, unless Joe Bloggs from Bridlington makes an instant, heroic success in his 3 minute Carabo Cup outing, he'll be farmed out top the likes of Plymouth Argyle to play against the trundling meathead journeymen hoofers of the lower divisions.
Take The Guardian's transfer round-up today: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... dy-chelsea - expect to see the potential future England players phased out even more this season.
I'd bet a hefty wedge that the reaction from plastics around the country when two 'non-prem' players scored against England last night was an immediate 'when are my adopted team bidding for him?!'

You don't have to "adopt" a team to love the Premier League. Every week of the season we are served up a feast of top quality football featuring the best players in the world. What's not to like about it?
I think the Premier League and the Champions League are far more important than a once every four years tournament in which we have failed dismally since it's inception; apart from three notable exceptions (1966, 1990 and this year)


You didn't read my post otherwise you'd have the answer. What's not to like about the 'Product league'? The fact that through the constant pursuit for customers and money the 'Product league' deprives potential future England players of a meaningful football upbringing. So many have faltered in their development after being swallowed up by the big clubs. There's not much beyond the squad that we took in the way of regular top-flight English starters - Southgate took just about the only collection of players he could assemble and, because English talent, playing regularly is at such a premium in an import swamped league he's had to put square pegs in round holes - Walker at CB, Young at LB

It was a rhetorical question but I would point out that our record in the World cup has been dismal since it's inception in 1930, way before the Premier League came into being.


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:20 pm
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
There is no English Mentality issue.

There is an England Experience issue.

The squad had very in the way of personnel with real big, later stage, tournament.
Similarly, notably the (slight) error for the winning goal was that of a player (Stones), who is a bit part player for his domestic team.
This has been picked up on another thread, but England don't just have to play against another XI, they have to struggle against a domestic league that provides scant opportunity for young English players to cut their teeth in high-level football. A number of last night's players had spent time out on loan at lower league teams whilst their parent clubs employ an import in their position. Some of them have had arduous pathways back into top flight football after being previously discarded. The positive is that people from around the nation identified with the players more, the negative is that they are several stages behind their opponents who learn their trade in league (most obviously our own) and European competition against the best.
The 90s and the advent of Sky, pumping their glamorous product into houses across the country almost incessantly reduced the need to wait 4 years for a chance of football glory. It means legions of armchair supporters who can watch their 'adopted' team almost continually without every having to brave Merseyside or Moss Side. They can bask in the neon glory of their superstars on weekly basis - who needs England every 4 years when you can watch the Gooners put 4 past Stoke or Swansea or West Brom? These glory-hunters (there is no other term) fund Sky, who fund the Premier league teams and that money has attracted the wealthiest of the wealthy to further bask in their own glory and further expand the already bloated transfer kitties of the top tier.
And because their 'consumers' demand to see their team sweep up all silverware in their wake so that they have bragging rights at the local these clubs are under pressure to fill their team photos with the very best, ready made, winners. This means a constant European merry-go round of players. And whilst this includes the brightest domestic prospects being hoovered up by the top clubs, unless Joe Bloggs from Bridlington makes an instant, heroic success in his 3 minute Carabo Cup outing, he'll be farmed out top the likes of Plymouth Argyle to play against the trundling meathead journeymen hoofers of the lower divisions.
Take The Guardian's transfer round-up today: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... dy-chelsea - expect to see the potential future England players phased out even more this season.
I'd bet a hefty wedge that the reaction from plastics around the country when two 'non-prem' players scored against England last night was an immediate 'when are my adopted team bidding for him?!'

You don't have to "adopt" a team to love the Premier League. Every week of the season we are served up a feast of top quality football featuring the best players in the world. What's not to like about it?
I think the Premier League and the Champions League are far more important than a once every four years tournament in which we have failed dismally since it's inception; apart from three notable exceptions (1966, 1990 and this year)


You didn't read my post otherwise you'd have the answer. What's not to like about the 'Product league'? The fact that through the constant pursuit for customers and money the 'Product league' deprives potential future England players of a meaningful football upbringing. So many have faltered in their development after being swallowed up by the big clubs. There's not much beyond the squad that we took in the way of regular top-flight English starters - Southgate took just about the only collection of players he could assemble and, because English talent, playing regularly is at such a premium in an import swamped league he's had to put square pegs in round holes - Walker at CB, Young at LB

It was a rhetorical question but I would point out that our record in the World cup has been dismal since it's inception in 1930, way before the Premier League came into being.




'Dismal'? I heard a rumour we won it once. Could be wrong. Quarters in 86 and 70, semis in 90. Hardly dismal. If you love the Premier League so much go join the other bandwagon jumpers, get your Liverpool shirt and sky package. Same teams winning it and in top 5 every season, i.e. those with most money - wow that's fun isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:21 am
Balham_Green wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
There is no English Mentality issue.

There is an England Experience issue.

The squad had very in the way of personnel with real big, later stage, tournament.
Similarly, notably the (slight) error for the winning goal was that of a player (Stones), who is a bit part player for his domestic team.
This has been picked up on another thread, but England don't just have to play against another XI, they have to struggle against a domestic league that provides scant opportunity for young English players to cut their teeth in high-level football. A number of last night's players had spent time out on loan at lower league teams whilst their parent clubs employ an import in their position. Some of them have had arduous pathways back into top flight football after being previously discarded. The positive is that people from around the nation identified with the players more, the negative is that they are several stages behind their opponents who learn their trade in league (most obviously our own) and European competition against the best.
The 90s and the advent of Sky, pumping their glamorous product into houses across the country almost incessantly reduced the need to wait 4 years for a chance of football glory. It means legions of armchair supporters who can watch their 'adopted' team almost continually without every having to brave Merseyside or Moss Side. They can bask in the neon glory of their superstars on weekly basis - who needs England every 4 years when you can watch the Gooners put 4 past Stoke or Swansea or West Brom? These glory-hunters (there is no other term) fund Sky, who fund the Premier league teams and that money has attracted the wealthiest of the wealthy to further bask in their own glory and further expand the already bloated transfer kitties of the top tier.
And because their 'consumers' demand to see their team sweep up all silverware in their wake so that they have bragging rights at the local these clubs are under pressure to fill their team photos with the very best, ready made, winners. This means a constant European merry-go round of players. And whilst this includes the brightest domestic prospects being hoovered up by the top clubs, unless Joe Bloggs from Bridlington makes an instant, heroic success in his 3 minute Carabo Cup outing, he'll be farmed out top the likes of Plymouth Argyle to play against the trundling meathead journeymen hoofers of the lower divisions.
Take The Guardian's transfer round-up today: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... dy-chelsea - expect to see the potential future England players phased out even more this season.
I'd bet a hefty wedge that the reaction from plastics around the country when two 'non-prem' players scored against England last night was an immediate 'when are my adopted team bidding for him?!'

You don't have to "adopt" a team to love the Premier League. Every week of the season we are served up a feast of top quality football featuring the best players in the world. What's not to like about it?
I think the Premier League and the Champions League are far more important than a once every four years tournament in which we have failed dismally since it's inception; apart from three notable exceptions (1966, 1990 and this year)


You didn't read my post otherwise you'd have the answer. What's not to like about the 'Product league'? The fact that through the constant pursuit for customers and money the 'Product league' deprives potential future England players of a meaningful football upbringing. So many have faltered in their development after being swallowed up by the big clubs. There's not much beyond the squad that we took in the way of regular top-flight English starters - Southgate took just about the only collection of players he could assemble and, because English talent, playing regularly is at such a premium in an import swamped league he's had to put square pegs in round holes - Walker at CB, Young at LB

It was a rhetorical question but I would point out that our record in the World cup has been dismal since it's inception in 1930, way before the Premier League came into being.




'Dismal'? I heard a rumour we won it once. Could be wrong. Quarters in 86 and 70, semis in 90. Hardly dismal. If you love the Premier League so much go join the other bandwagon jumpers, get your Liverpool shirt and sky package. Same teams winning it and in top 5 every season, i.e. those with most money - wow that's fun isn't it?

One win and two semis (no one in their right mind would consider quarter finals a success for a football nation our size) in 88 years is by my reckoning dismal and I would have thought, considering you don't have what can be described as a positive outlook on life, you would agree with me.
I have had my Sky package since the inception of the Premier League and can't wait for the season to start. I get you are not the biggest football fan on Earth but surely I would have thought even you can see some merit in the quality of football on offer in the Premier League, but if it's not to your taste don't watch it and waste your money.


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:55 pm
Location: Manchester
esmer wrote:
Balham_Green wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
There is no English Mentality issue.

There is an England Experience issue.

The squad had very in the way of personnel with real big, later stage, tournament.
Similarly, notably the (slight) error for the winning goal was that of a player (Stones), who is a bit part player for his domestic team.
This has been picked up on another thread, but England don't just have to play against another XI, they have to struggle against a domestic league that provides scant opportunity for young English players to cut their teeth in high-level football. A number of last night's players had spent time out on loan at lower league teams whilst their parent clubs employ an import in their position. Some of them have had arduous pathways back into top flight football after being previously discarded. The positive is that people from around the nation identified with the players more, the negative is that they are several stages behind their opponents who learn their trade in league (most obviously our own) and European competition against the best.
The 90s and the advent of Sky, pumping their glamorous product into houses across the country almost incessantly reduced the need to wait 4 years for a chance of football glory. It means legions of armchair supporters who can watch their 'adopted' team almost continually without every having to brave Merseyside or Moss Side. They can bask in the neon glory of their superstars on weekly basis - who needs England every 4 years when you can watch the Gooners put 4 past Stoke or Swansea or West Brom? These glory-hunters (there is no other term) fund Sky, who fund the Premier league teams and that money has attracted the wealthiest of the wealthy to further bask in their own glory and further expand the already bloated transfer kitties of the top tier.
And because their 'consumers' demand to see their team sweep up all silverware in their wake so that they have bragging rights at the local these clubs are under pressure to fill their team photos with the very best, ready made, winners. This means a constant European merry-go round of players. And whilst this includes the brightest domestic prospects being hoovered up by the top clubs, unless Joe Bloggs from Bridlington makes an instant, heroic success in his 3 minute Carabo Cup outing, he'll be farmed out top the likes of Plymouth Argyle to play against the trundling meathead journeymen hoofers of the lower divisions.
Take The Guardian's transfer round-up today: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... dy-chelsea - expect to see the potential future England players phased out even more this season.
I'd bet a hefty wedge that the reaction from plastics around the country when two 'non-prem' players scored against England last night was an immediate 'when are my adopted team bidding for him?!'

You don't have to "adopt" a team to love the Premier League. Every week of the season we are served up a feast of top quality football featuring the best players in the world. What's not to like about it?
I think the Premier League and the Champions League are far more important than a once every four years tournament in which we have failed dismally since it's inception; apart from three notable exceptions (1966, 1990 and this year)


You didn't read my post otherwise you'd have the answer. What's not to like about the 'Product league'? The fact that through the constant pursuit for customers and money the 'Product league' deprives potential future England players of a meaningful football upbringing. So many have faltered in their development after being swallowed up by the big clubs. There's not much beyond the squad that we took in the way of regular top-flight English starters - Southgate took just about the only collection of players he could assemble and, because English talent, playing regularly is at such a premium in an import swamped league he's had to put square pegs in round holes - Walker at CB, Young at LB

It was a rhetorical question but I would point out that our record in the World cup has been dismal since it's inception in 1930, way before the Premier League came into being.




'Dismal'? I heard a rumour we won it once. Could be wrong. Quarters in 86 and 70, semis in 90. Hardly dismal. If you love the Premier League so much go join the other bandwagon jumpers, get your Liverpool shirt and sky package. Same teams winning it and in top 5 every season, i.e. those with most money - wow that's fun isn't it?

One win and two semis (no one in their right mind would consider quarter finals a success for a football nation our size) in 88 years is by my reckoning dismal and I would have thought, considering you don't have what can be described as a positive outlook on life, you would agree with me.
I have had my Sky package since the inception of the Premier League and can't wait for the season to start. I get you are not the biggest football fan on Earth but surely I would have thought even you can see some merit in the quality of football on offer in the Premier League, but if it's not to your taste don't watch it and waste your money.


Confused.
If the quality of football in the premier league is so good, and all of England's squad play for teams in the premier league how is it the national team's record is 'dismal'?
Answer. Because the Consumer League sidelines potential English talent in favour of ready made imports to keep sky fans dribbling down their replica shirts at their new billion pound squads.

As a knowledgable Premier league consumer perhaps you can go on my other thread and name your next best squad of English players after the 23 they took to Russia?

By all means enjoy sky's never ending coverage and hyperbole as Watford battle with Bournemouth but remember it's their millions that have distorted the playing field so that the likes of Plymouth Argyle will almost certainly never reach the top flight and its their endless nauseating adulation of the 'big 4' that has created a whole wave of plastic fans who will never set foot in home park let alone the stadiums of their adopted clubs

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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:20 pm
esmer wrote:
Balham_Green wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
esmer wrote:
up_the_line wrote:
There is no English Mentality issue.

There is an England Experience issue.

The squad had very in the way of personnel with real big, later stage, tournament.
Similarly, notably the (slight) error for the winning goal was that of a player (Stones), who is a bit part player for his domestic team.
This has been picked up on another thread, but England don't just have to play against another XI, they have to struggle against a domestic league that provides scant opportunity for young English players to cut their teeth in high-level football. A number of last night's players had spent time out on loan at lower league teams whilst their parent clubs employ an import in their position. Some of them have had arduous pathways back into top flight football after being previously discarded. The positive is that people from around the nation identified with the players more, the negative is that they are several stages behind their opponents who learn their trade in league (most obviously our own) and European competition against the best.
The 90s and the advent of Sky, pumping their glamorous product into houses across the country almost incessantly reduced the need to wait 4 years for a chance of football glory. It means legions of armchair supporters who can watch their 'adopted' team almost continually without every having to brave Merseyside or Moss Side. They can bask in the neon glory of their superstars on weekly basis - who needs England every 4 years when you can watch the Gooners put 4 past Stoke or Swansea or West Brom? These glory-hunters (there is no other term) fund Sky, who fund the Premier league teams and that money has attracted the wealthiest of the wealthy to further bask in their own glory and further expand the already bloated transfer kitties of the top tier.
And because their 'consumers' demand to see their team sweep up all silverware in their wake so that they have bragging rights at the local these clubs are under pressure to fill their team photos with the very best, ready made, winners. This means a constant European merry-go round of players. And whilst this includes the brightest domestic prospects being hoovered up by the top clubs, unless Joe Bloggs from Bridlington makes an instant, heroic success in his 3 minute Carabo Cup outing, he'll be farmed out top the likes of Plymouth Argyle to play against the trundling meathead journeymen hoofers of the lower divisions.
Take The Guardian's transfer round-up today: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... dy-chelsea - expect to see the potential future England players phased out even more this season.
I'd bet a hefty wedge that the reaction from plastics around the country when two 'non-prem' players scored against England last night was an immediate 'when are my adopted team bidding for him?!'

You don't have to "adopt" a team to love the Premier League. Every week of the season we are served up a feast of top quality football featuring the best players in the world. What's not to like about it?
I think the Premier League and the Champions League are far more important than a once every four years tournament in which we have failed dismally since it's inception; apart from three notable exceptions (1966, 1990 and this year)


You didn't read my post otherwise you'd have the answer. What's not to like about the 'Product league'? The fact that through the constant pursuit for customers and money the 'Product league' deprives potential future England players of a meaningful football upbringing. So many have faltered in their development after being swallowed up by the big clubs. There's not much beyond the squad that we took in the way of regular top-flight English starters - Southgate took just about the only collection of players he could assemble and, because English talent, playing regularly is at such a premium in an import swamped league he's had to put square pegs in round holes - Walker at CB, Young at LB

It was a rhetorical question but I would point out that our record in the World cup has been dismal since it's inception in 1930, way before the Premier League came into being.




'Dismal'? I heard a rumour we won it once. Could be wrong. Quarters in 86 and 70, semis in 90. Hardly dismal. If you love the Premier League so much go join the other bandwagon jumpers, get your Liverpool shirt and sky package. Same teams winning it and in top 5 every season, i.e. those with most money - wow that's fun isn't it?

One win and two semis (no one in their right mind would consider quarter finals a success for a football nation our size) in 88 years is by my reckoning dismal and I would have thought, considering you don't have what can be described as a positive outlook on life, you would agree with me.
I have had my Sky package since the inception of the Premier League and can't wait for the season to start. I get you are not the biggest football fan on Earth but surely I would have thought even you can see some merit in the quality of football on offer in the Premier League, but if it's not to your taste don't watch it and waste your money.



1. You don't even realize that we didn't enter the competition until 1954.
2. If our record was dismal before 1992 how would you describe it since.
3. Because I have little interest in Premier League therefore ' I am not the biggest football fan'. What a load of bullsh*the. You are very confused. I would suggest that applies to you more as you only seem interested in glory hunting the primadonnas. By the wayI love watching the Champions League and seeing the Premiership teams failing every year.


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Mentality has little to do with it. There is a stranglehold on the English game: money and the pressure for clubs to succeed (or not fail) at the cost of the development of home-grown players. Chelski might try to boast of their academies but they are the prime example of the problem for the national team. There is zero interest in blooding talent because the only thing that matters is instant success and above all else the money it brings.

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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:06 pm
up_the_line wrote:
By all means enjoy sky's never ending coverage and hyperbole as Watford battle with Bournemouth but remember it's their millions that have distorted the playing field so that tbs

Cheeky!

;)

Actually games between us two are usually quite good as both teams know we could win (usually ends in a draw) compared to most of the games against above 7th which most of the time will end in defeat

I tend to see both sides - Premier league can be entertaining but you kind of know your only really going to win 8-10 a season unless your Leicester City season 2015-16 and there is a lot of average football played.

As for the point made about youngsters not getting a chance - as someone said all the pressure is on instant results and demands for success so managers don't take such a risk.


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:33 pm
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I do think people who say England haven't improved or made progress just because we had a few favorable games are being harsh.

In previous tournaments we've failed to beat USA, Algeria, Russia, Slovakia and Iceland, this time round we played arguably better sides, Colombia are always a threat and we should really have won in 90 minutes, Sweden came in their qualifying group ahead of Holland and beat France along the way and then even went on to beat Italy in the play off round in November so to say these teams are easy isn't really true when in years gone we probably would have either drawn or lost to these type of sides (look back to Iceland two years ago)

Personally I'm pretty excited to see how this England side and manager develops. I don't think we will win Euro 2020 FWIW but I don't see no reason why we can't go far again.


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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:22 am 
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I'm in the same boat as the majority of posters I think? We did ok and actually exorcised the dreaded ghost of penalties past, but the way we capitulated having surrendered the initiative against Croatia was very disappointing.

Our midfield was overrun in the second half by a side who came out and showed energy and urgency, we seemed to sit way too deep trying to see the game out way too early on.

The Croatian wide players had the freedom to push on at will and we looked like rabbits in the headlights at times. We lacked an organizer, a leader, a calm head in midfield and more importantly a manager who had the tactical nous to see what was unfolding and deal with it.

We seemed content to hump it long and buy a bit of breathing space before simply falling back on the eighteen yard box and allowing the likes of Modric the freedom of the middle of the park.

The disconnect between midfield and attack was there to see and address but it never happened. All that may seem a bit harsh but the reality is we will never have an easier route to a World Cup Final and it feels like a missed opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: An English Mentality Issue
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:17 pm 
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As if to make my point before the world cup is even over, United fans cock-a-hoop that they are in talks with Croatia scorer Peresic. Maybe they can relegate Rashford down the pecking order some more. Well done Premier Product League

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Goldbergs Solicitors


Lang and Potter




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