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Investment thread

Jon with no H

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Yes. He is a good chairman.

I’m disappointed that he hasn’t found the resources to drive us forward. Ipswich have shown what can be done.
Ipswich is a club with all the facilities that he is trying to build, they are miles of clear of us in history and the corresponding reputation as well.

Anyone with that kind of money who is not already a fan of the particular club is going to want to buy it off the shelf rather than spend their own money to build it themselves.

Plymouth Argyle is a big club to us because it's our club and the ones around it are based in smaller places with smaller followings, but this season has shown where we are in the natural order of things. That's not a lack of ambition, it's just reality.
 
Dec 28, 2023
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I think that's a different argument when the chairman has made clear from day dot that he will not preside over a club spending money it doesn't have. If that's too bad, you're probably better off going to support Manchester City at this point.

Finn Azaz is earning anywhere between £1.6 million and £3.5 million Pounds a year at Middlebrough, depending on who you read on here or talk to in the concourse at Rotherham. That's essentially a different sport to the one we're playing.

Your idea of taking £5 million from the Brickfields plans would pay for slightly more than one Championship player's transfer fee and wages for a single season. And at the end of that season, then what?

EDIT: Should have said good luck to Finn Azaz, he deserves every bit of whatever sum he's getting.
Nothing like that amount. https://footystats.org/players/england/finn-azaz c.300K euro
Agreed. Not to mention that if we tried to match boro's wages, what would the likes of Morgan, Ryan, Coops, Bali and Gibson think about it? They'd all want higher wages.
Azaz is on nothing like that money. He's earning c.300 K Euros https://footystats.org/players/england/finn-azaz
 
Dec 28, 2023
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Ipswich is a club with all the facilities that he is trying to build, they are miles of clear of us in history and the corresponding reputation as well.

Anyone with that kind of money who is not already a fan of the particular club is going to want to buy it off the shelf rather than spend their own money to build it themselves.

Plymouth Argyle is a big club to us because it's our club and the ones around it are based in smaller places with smaller followings, but this season has shown where we are in the natural order of things. That's not a lack of ambition, it's just reality.
I think the big difference for Argyle is our isolation away from big Business. Yes there are 1 or 2 big companies but do they want to be associated with Football or Argyle - clearly not and are they big enough? We are 120 miles from the next nearest club & they have a multi Billionaire backing them & Bristol Bears Rugby in same stadium. So it will always be a big struggle to attract investors with the right mindset of the long haul not someone who stick a few million in and wants it doubled by tomorrow. I doubt the SW Tourist board would have the resouces to buy into PAFC!
There is no easy solution but perhaps only overseas money which I would'nt really like to see but it maybe the only alternative.
 
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Jon with no H

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I think the big difference for Argyle is our isolation away from big Business. Yes there are 1 or 2 big companies but do they want to be associated with Football or Argyle - clearly not and are they big enough? We are 120 miles from the next nearest club & they have a multi Billionaire backing them & Bristol Bears Rugby in same stadium. So it will always be a big struggle to attract investors with the right mindset of the long haul not someone who stick a few million in and wants it doubled by tomorrow. I doubt the SW Tourist board would have the resouces to buy into PAFC!
There is no easy solution but perhaps only overseas money which I would'nt really like to see but it maybe the only alternative.
This is my whole point, people can chuck around a term like "lack of ambition" because it doesn't really mean anything concrete, but if there's nobody with the resources, such is life.
 

Jon with no H

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But that lasts one season and then you need another £7m+ the next season and the season after and the season after that etc. £7m one-off investment might increase the budget by maybe £2m per year for a few years. And then what?

Yes, I get that. I was actually trying to work out what 20% of Simons shares would be worth and what figures we were talking in investment. Then I heard him say that without investment we would be looking at another relegation fight. So I was trying to work out what we may have next year for a budget.

I'd guess the year on year cover for that would come from selling on players - hence the sell and reinvest strategy.
 
Aug 23, 2006
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I don’t think it’s black or white though.

It isn’t “spend money we don’t have” or “have a small budget that is balanced”.

They aren’t the two only possible options.

A bigger budget and a longer time frame for the Brickfields development would have been an option.

Clearly Azaz would have been out of reach but we would have been able to invest in a number 10 and striker that would have kept us up.
I pretty sure I heard Simon Hallett on a podcast saying in hindsight it was a mistake not to buy Azaz.
 
Dec 4, 2011
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I pretty sure I heard Simon Hallett on a podcast saying in hindsight it was a mistake not to buy Azaz.
I didn't hear it like that. More like... "with hindsight we can see he was certainly a Championship player and if we had the money it would have been great to try to sign him in the summer of 2023, however, we didn't have the money".
 
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MGM

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I didn't hear it like that. More like... "with hindsight we can see he was certainly a Championship player and if we had the money it would have been great to try to sign him in the summer of 2023, however, we didn't have the money".

That is what he said.
 
Jun 24, 2008
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We have to stay up this season bank the money and go down stronger or hopefully stay up get investment and have a proper go that's our only options but our best chance is to stay up this season
 
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Jack PP.

You are falling into the trap that sent us into administration.

We spend what we have, not what we have not got or what we have set aside for other matters.

By the way, Ipswich were in the top division and played in Europe, but I expect you are too young to know that. Not a good example.

Hallett is trying to get us up to a decent club with infrastructure for the current level of activity. God knows we have been bereft of it for years. Please accept that this is the way to go, because it is and should have happened years ago.

The lack of infrastructure has been holding us back for years, and is one of the reasons why we are the largest city in the uk NOT to have been in the top league at all, for well over 100 years.

Just think what I have just said and you will understand what we are up against.

Hallett is the first Chairman, nay owner, who is looking ahead, and wants this club to advance properly, sustainably and because of that we have to spend on Brickfields, and Harpers, and the ground even though all supporters want money spent on players, but it never works without the infrastructure in place.

Improvements have started, but there is a long way to go. In the meantime we must thank him for what he is doing, he is giving us a vision of what the future may become, but it isn't going to happen straight away. Not here and now, it is a slow progression and we must be prepared for the odd hic-up now and again.

Hallett should not be berated for what he is doing, he is not doing it wrong, he is doing it right, and we should all be thankful that he has this vision so that we can all be part of it too.
 

MGM

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Check out some of the owners of the clubs you just mentioned.

Sheffield United - one of the most important people in Saudi Arabia

Brentford - Very well run but it helps that Matthew Benham has a net worth 4 times that of Simon Hallett.

Luton - the exception in that they haven't got an owner vastly wealthier than the Hallett's and probably the model the follow but even they significantly increased wages and spending to levels that would be unsustainable if they didn't get promoted:


I'm sure both Argyle and Rotherham would be more than happy to accept outside investment if it presented itself.

However, there seems to be an assumption from some people that there's a queue of rich people just willing to throw away millions at a football club. Plus any investment would likely come with some significant strings attached.

Likewise another assumption is that there's excellent players just out there in January that could have been signed by Argyle unopposed for reasonable cost.

Does running the club massively into debt, spending money on players for the sake of it (Kenny Cooper comes to mind) or accepting money from an investor who doesn't have the best interest of the club in mind mean a lack of ambition?

This is a brilliant post.

However, lm afraid their is a section of the fanbase who just don't get budget restrictions. If you mention it, they think your being defeatist.

Last season, Argyle had a budget that if you spilt the league in 3 groups of 8 teams. They were in the middle group. However, more near the bottom of that group of 8, than the top. So between 12th -15th.

So when you say to people you think it's a bloody good achievement that if we got in the playoffs, whilst we are in the top 2, it's not because you don't want the glory of automatic promotion but l try to be fair about my expectations. Last season to comfortably get in the playoffs given our level of budget would of been a magnificent achievement. Had we not got in the top 2, let alone win the championship, people would of seen it as failure. I just don't think things are ever that black & white.

What we achieved last year, on our budget, was a one of the best achievements you will see in terms of pounds for points in any of the four duvisions. In fact given what we spent, it might just be one of modern footballs best success stories.

People don't want to hear we are a small club. But we are. People don't want to face up to the overwhelming budgets these teams have over us.

It always comes back to money, because football is about money. It's about chasing a dream of a league where as fans you end up getting screwed over to watch your team play by silly kick off times & a transport network that can't support you. There are too many within football who don't care about it. And they certainly don't care about the fans. They just want to make money out of you. £90 to go & watch Fulham on a matchday. And that was against Burnley.


I know Simon Hallett is different. But it worries me the greater financial backing someone can give this club what their real motivation is. And whilst Simon Hallett does need further investment l do wonder at what price Argyle will pay in order to be a club that can just drift in the championship. I don't want to be a WBA or Bristol City that is in the Championship but just losing tens of millions for some outside shot to a league where we weren't ready to be in.

Some say that's defeatist, but look at Argyle fans reaction now to struggling in the Championship. It's more media scrutinised than its ever been. If you get it wrong, like a Sheffield Utd it's a painful 7 months after the first couple of months where its the "honeymoon period".

We may survive this season, then what? What do people think they will see different next year? Some better attacking football perhaps. Yet you still need the money to buy that quality of players to sustain that type of football. Look at our squad at this minute. You have Hardie. And the next in line is Ben Waine. You have Whittaker as attacking wide player. If he got injured you have some like Alfie Devine, Callum Wright or Bundu. These days football is a squad game & if you look at our squad, not just our first 11, would you hand on heart say that's a squad that is Championship ready?

Our future will be determined by how deep the next investors pockets are. Not only that, we have to find people with money who might not like getting dictate to, as to where their money goes.

Despite all this. I have to say l am a very happy Argyle fan. Not because l want to settle for mediocrity. More because l feel a great engagement with the club. I feel we made mistakes, but we trying our hardest to survive. Everyone looks at relegation will be some final chapter where we wont be back in the championship for another 10 years. Yet this club is run differently from the versions of the club that have been relegated before. I look beyond that & think how healthy our club is and that it will still be moving forward with projects like brickfields off the pitch. Maybe not enough for some. Maybe a lack of ambition for others.

Yet until we have a billionaire in place then lm going to try & be realistic with my expectations.
 
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Apr 2, 2024
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Jack PP.

You are falling into the trap that sent us into administration.

We spend what we have, not what we have not got or what we have set aside for other matters.

By the way, Ipswich were in the top division and played in Europe, but I expect you are too young to know that. Not a good example.
Blimey. You sound like Foster.

“We can’t compete with Ipswich as they once won the UEFA cup”.

I’m not berating Hallett.

I’m simply saying there are options between “gamble the future of the club” and “spend only what we have”.

I’d have argued for less in the Brickfields budget initially and more in the transfer budget.

I appreciate I am in a minority though.
 
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I’m simply saying there are options between “gamble the future of the club” and “spend only what we have”.

I’d have argued for less in the Brickfields budget initially and more in the transfer budget.
Is that really between the two though? The money for Brickfields would still need to be found from somewhere the next season, and there's no guarantee that spending more keeps us up. The spending more would be over multiple seasons too as players would be on longer contracts. What you've said you wanted IS gambling the future of the club. It's not between the two at all.