Checkatrade Trophy - Format Survey

[GreenArmy1984]

Whatever they call it now but it's always been known as The Football League Trophy Now Checkatrade Trophy

Remember when Freight Rover , Sherpa Van , Leyland DAF , Autoglass , Auto windscreens , LDV Vans , Johnstones Paint Sponsored it

Another Cup Competition always has the added spice of playing our friends up The Road when we draw them

 

[East End Green]

All I am interested in Plymouth Argyle being successful and Winning football matches

I keep out of the politics of life

Just a Argyle Fan :scarf:

35 Years a Pilgrim

So You're just going to bury your head in the sand and pretend like the Football League isn't in danger of being infiltrated by B teams?

Have fun going to watch Argyle v Tottenham C in a few years time. That's what will happen if we all adopt your attitude.

Scaremongering again. B teams in the FL at this moment in time are just people adding two and two together and making five. I can't see the EFL ever voting that one in.

Do you realistically think that, if the PL offered - let's say - £50m increase in the solidarity payment on condition that a new structure including B teams was put in place, and added the threat that if it wasn't, the whole future of the solidarity payment would be in jeopardy, the chairmen would turn it down? Which is exactly what happened with EPPP (without the bribe).

I refer you to the comments of Notts County's chairman who, when challenged why he had voted for the CT after overwhelming opposition from fans, pointed out fairly forcefully that County were £2m in debt and if the fans wanted a club at all they should button it. As long as the PL control the purse strings, they can do just exactly whatever they want. And it is all *entirely* in their own interest.

 

[Ollieargyle9]

All I am interested in Plymouth Argyle being successful and Winning football matches

I keep out of the politics of life

Just a Argyle Fan :scarf:

35 Years a Pilgrim

So You're just going to bury your head in the sand and pretend like the Football League isn't in danger of being infiltrated by B teams?

Have fun going to watch Argyle v Tottenham C in a few years time. That's what will happen if we all adopt your attitude.

Scaremongering again. B teams in the FL at this moment in time are just people adding two and two together and making five. I can't see the EFL ever voting that one in.

If you told anyone 3-4 years ago that the JPT would have B-Teams competing in it how many people would have believed you?

Difference is 3-4 years ago this wasn't even an issue so who could have predicted it? Now though you can see it happening because the idea has already been mooted. It was criticised so heavily at first that the FL had to scrap it. Slowly but surely though it creeps back in, the acceptance of B-Teams in this tournament as the norm grows as more people shrug it off as something out of their control while others forget that it's happening, is it really scaremongering or hard to imagine the next "trial" in the pipeline?

This is how these people operate and you can't see it happening before your eyes. How does any corporate giant deal with naysayers? They sideline them; ignore them for long enough and they'll go away, shirk the real issues and use divisive phrases that create a "them and us" scenario.

For example, Harvey trots out this "thin end of the wedge" nonsense in all of his speeches, why? To reassure us, don't make me laugh! It allows the general public to differentiate themselves from extremists with "ludicrous" ideas about B-Teams in the league system. Of course we don't want that but that's not why we're against B-Teams in this tournament, we're against them in this tournament because we don't want our club playing another team's reserves in a competitive game. Thing is it's far easier to dismiss us if people think we're weirdos with these crazy ideas that he claims aren't happening.

Maybe it is the plan maybe it isn't, thing is it's not the point. We don't want Argyle playing another team's B-Team "competitively", league or cup.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

I'm still not convinced that there isn't too much "two plus two equals five" here.

Every argument seems to contain the word if

 

[Ollieargyle9]

I'm still not convinced that there isn't too much "two plus two equals five" here.

Every argument seems to contain the word if

Mine doesn't, I don't want Argyle playing another club's B-Team. No ifs no buts; league game, cup game I don't care I do not want Argyle's name degraded in that way or the tournaments/divisions we compete in marginalised like that.

B-Teams in the FL trophy are not the "thin end of the wedge", that is a sideshow line tossed about by Harvey to mask the real issue here and that's B-Teams in the FL Trophy, there is no thin end.

 

[Blue_in_Devon]

This competition has always been the poor relation of other cup competitions and with each and every bit of interference from Harvey it is now a complete farce.

English Football League boss Shaun Harvey has defended the decision to rig the draw for next season's Checkatrade Trophy in order to avoid a Portsmouth-Southampton clash, saying the clubs had requested it. Before the draw started for the eight southern groups, Southampton's ball was removed from the pot and a separate draw was made for group A, which already featured Charlton, Crawley and Portsmouth, and Fulham was picked. After that, the southern draw preceded as normal, with Southampton eventually going into group H with Cambridge, Northampton and Peterborough.

Speaking to reporters after the draw, Harvey said: "One of the commitments we made, right at the outset, was to try to avoid games that had a significant potential for high levels of disorder". When asked about the other local rivalries, Harvey said the view from the clubs involved was the risks were not "significant" and could be "managed".

This approach sets a dangerous precedent whereby clubs can dictate who they do and don't want to be drawn against.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

I'm still not convinced that there isn't too much "two plus two equals five" here.

Every argument seems to contain the word if

Mine doesn't, I don't want Argyle playing another club's B-Team. No ifs no buts; league game, cup game I don't care I do not want Argyle's name degraded in that way or the tournaments/divisions we compete in marginalised like that.

B-Teams in the FL trophy are not the "thin end of the wedge", that is a sideshow line tossed about by Harvey to mask the real issue here and that's B-Teams in the FL Trophy, there is no thin end.

I can respect that view. However, come the 3rd round of the League Cup, Argyle could quite easily face a Premier League reserve side in that competition too. Would that be degrading as well?

 

[Bermudian Green]

I'm still not convinced that there isn't too much "two plus two equals five" here.

Every argument seems to contain the word if

Mine doesn't, I don't want Argyle playing another club's B-Team. No ifs no buts; league game, cup game I don't care I do not want Argyle's name degraded in that way or the tournaments/divisions we compete in marginalised like that.

B-Teams in the FL trophy are not the "thin end of the wedge", that is a sideshow line tossed about by Harvey to mask the real issue here and that's B-Teams in the FL Trophy, there is no thin end.

I can respect that view. However, come the 3rd round of the League Cup, Argyle could quite easily face a Premier League reserve side in that competition too. Would that be degrading as well?

Except that it wouldn't be a reserve team, would it, and you know it full well. In the Checkatrade, you could have Chelsea B team playing at Argyle on the same night that their "main" team are playing in an ever so important game against someone like, oh, I dunno, Palace. How would you feel if Palace were made to play their first team in a competitive game against someone else's second team? The worrying thing is, there will be many more like you who just cannot see the consequences of where this is headed. All it needs is for Palace to have 2 bad seasons and you'll have to do exactly that. Then we'll see what your comments are like.

 

[East End Green]

I'm still not convinced that there isn't too much "two plus two equals five" here.

Every argument seems to contain the word if

It's not two plus two equals five. It's looking rationally at the past history of all involved - the PL, the FL leadership and chairmen and deciding that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the PL will bribe and bully until they get their way and that the clubs and the league will put up a token resistance before caving in and giving the PL whatever they ask for in return for a mess of potage. Exactly as they have done since the thing was first mooted in 1989.

You do remember *why* the PL was founded in the first place? A desire to keep all the revenue without distributing it equitably across the divisions. And you do remember their original intention to cut the link completely between the PL and FL and have no promotion and relegation - and that the only way they would countenance retaining it was if the League accepted their financial demands to keep the vast majority of their revenues for themselves. It is an organisation founded on and sustained by unrelenting bullying greed. And the League's continued Stockholm Syndrome means that whatever the PL wants, the PL gets.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

I do understand the mistrust here. One thing though, this competition set up was not a Premier League initiative. The academies involved are there by invitation from the FL and not once has the idea been a subject of discussion officially at any PL members meetings.

 

[Guiri Green]

Chatting with a Villa and Tottenham fans on holiday recently, they were surprised to hear me say how in my experience, the majority of League Club fans dont give two hoots for the PL.

The Villa fan didn't seem to register that they've probably got more money for being relegated from the PL than the last time Man Utd won it. I said that the Championship is rapidly becoming PL2. Wolves recently spending £16M ? highlighting the difference since our last stay there.

Villa have / had players on huge wages most people never heard of. Some of the youngsters used to stay with the Villa people I spoke to. Most never made it anywhere the first team. Whether that be lack of ability or chance I don't know.

If chances and serious game time are really that scarce for these 'kids' , I still think the PL could fund a nationwide (regionalised if neccesary) Reserve League for those wishing to enter. Better all round to play a garaunteed amount of regular competitive games - albeit of varying quality levels of opposition - than whatever lacklustre incestous PL secondary set up they play in now. Much better than a handful of games in a boycotted, no one cares for Cup competition.

 

[East End Green]

On a separate, but related, note, if anyone is in any doubt as to how badly young players are treated, and how appallingly clubs behave towards these little children (from about age 5 in some cases), you might want to read Michale Calvin's excellent book 'No Hunger In Paradise' and hear the evidence of coaches, players and parents. It is scandalous how badly some clubs are behaving - and it goes to show that, when I read about the Premier League threatening to sue a 13 year old for whistleblowing on a tapping-up scandal, it didn't surprise me in the slightest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... apping-up/

 

[Mark Colling]

I do understand the mistrust here. One thing though, this competition set up was not a Premier League initiative. The academies involved are there by invitation from the FL and not once has the idea been a subject of discussion officially at any PL members meetings.

There are plenty of managers/coaches in the PL and FA who would like to see BTeams in the league structure to develop young players, to which my answer is "don't hoard them or loan them out".

However, you are right that it was a botched FL invitation, but one thrust on the clubs without warning last summer by Harvey. Why would someone looking after the interests of his members, make them more financially reliant on the PL?

He's either dishonest or utterly incompetent; he has to go.

 

[Gary Wills]

I find it hard to swallow that over 50% of FL-attending fans take zero interest in top level domestic football. Inconceivable. A vocal relatively small minority of FL attendees who shout from street and roof a chest thump of a ground swell opinion that the PL is the root of all evil, more likely perhaps.

Tangentially of Telegraph and click baits, a funny old comment on F365 Mails today: "Wouldn’t sell Real a virus. As a United fan i’d rather sell De Gea to Barcelona for a tenner and a ham sandwich than ever let him go to Real Madrid. All they do is try and bully us into selling our best players to them and then try and sell their unwanted scraps to us at an inflated price."

 

[Ollieargyle9]

I do understand the mistrust here. One thing though, this competition set up was not a Premier League initiative. The academies involved are there by invitation from the FL and not once has the idea been a subject of discussion officially at any PL members meetings.

No but it is a treatment for a side-effect caused by previous Premier League backed initiatives.

PPPP player hoarding, reductions of the loan system, lack of trickle down money to grass roots and FL academies mean the Premier League clubs have a monopoly on young footballers with even the slightest hint of PL potential. They've gathered them all up but what on earth do they do with them? Release the "lessers" to FL clubs because they haven't got the room themselves to allow others to develop these youngsters competitively? No way, where's the money in that?!? Keep them under contract at the PL club just in case they do make it, all the while getting them competitive football in FL competitions? Now you're talking!

Pure greed!