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Elimination Table and others up and running

Mark Smith

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After last night, the top two places are a shootout between Leicester, Leeds and Ipswich.

Ipswich have to beat Hull on Saturday to have any hope of overhauling Leicester, and to keep the pressure on Leeds.
Leeds have one game fewer than Ipswich so they really need to beat QPR on Friday.

Southampton are now almost certainly stuck in 4th place.They therefore have little to play for against Stoke.

All eyes on Coventry-Hull tonight - that result will shape the race for the playoffs and the stakes in our relegation rivals' remaining games.
 
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South Hams James

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'Ipswich have to beat Hull on Saturday to have any hope of overhauling Leicester' this helps us massively as i suspect if it happens then Argyle v Hull on the last day for Hull will be nothing to play for. Still not easy as they are a quality team. But the last thing we want is them having to win to have a chance of overhauling Norwich. Mind you if Norwich are guaranteed 6 place, they have Birmingham on the last day.... FFS....
 

The Doctor

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I've updated my graphic to include all of this week's games. It is now a four club competition for the last two play-off places, but it is pretty unlikely that Coventry will win all three of their remaining games while West Brom and Norwich both lose twice and Hull lose one of their two games, so basically they are out of it and it is two from the other three.

I'm not convinced by the argument that the Hull game will be easier for us if they have nothing to play for because sometimes it is better when the opposition has to try to win the game as they can leave themselves open at the back when trying to do so. But it certainly is better for us if West Brom win on Saturday against Sheffield Wednesday.

Last week I clearly completely jinxed Southampton by suggesting that their excellent form meant that they were in with a really good chance of sneaking into the automatic promotion spots - they promptly lost against Cardiff and Leicester to eliminate themselves from that race! So, today I am going to argue that Hull and Sheffield Wednesday are both in pretty good form and certainly looking like they can lift themselves into the play-offs and to Championship status respectively.
[There, that statement should shatter the hopes of both of those two teams...]

1714067263641.png
 
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The Doctor

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Okay - for a bit of fun (yes, I know...) I have produced a pair of graphics that show what things could like on Saturday evening in the best case scenario (we win, Birmingham and Huddersfield draw and everyone else around us loses) and in the worse case scenario (we lose, Birmingham beat Huddersfield and everyone else around us wins). This is a way of preparing to the psychological impact of either scenario actually occurring (well that's my excuse at least). Goal differences have not been adjusted at all in these pictures.

Don't have nightmares - sleep well tonight.

Best Case Scenario:
1714146512873.png

Worse Case Scenario:
1714146474274.png
 
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Update after April 26th games


Code:
Team        PL        GD        PTS     MAX     HIGH            LOW

1   Leicester        44         46        94     100      1               5        Promoted
2   Leeds U.         45         39        90      93      1               5        Playoffs
 
------------------------------------------------------------------
3   Ipswich T.       43         32        89      95      1               5        Playoffs
4   Southampton      44         24        84      90      2               5        Can not be relegated
5   West Bromwich    44         23        72      78      5               9        Can not be relegated
6   Norwich C.       44         16        72      78      5               9        Can not be relegated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7  Hull C.           44          9        69      75      5              11        Can not be relegated
8  Coventry C.       43         13        63      72      5              12        Can not be relegated
9  Middlesbrough     44          4        63      69      7              12        Safe
10  Preston N. E.    44         -5        63      69      7              12        Safe
11  Cardiff C.       44        -11        62      68      7              14        Safe
12  Bristol C.       44          4        59      65      8              17        Safe
13  Sunderland       44          1        56      62     11              18        Safe
14  Swansea C.       44         -5        56      62     11              18        Safe
15  Watford          44          1        53      59     12              21        Safe
16  Millwall         44        -12        53      59     12              21        Safe
17  Queens Park R.   45        -12        53      56     14              21        Safe
18  Stoke C.         44        -16        50      56     13              23        Can not be Promoted
19  Blackburn R.     44        -16        49      55     15              23        Can not be Promoted
20  Plymouth A.      44        -11        48      54     15              23        Can not be Promoted
21  Sheffield W.     44        -29        47      53     15              23        Can not be Promoted
 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

22  Birmingham C.    44        -16        46      52     18              23        Can not be Promoted
23  Huddersfield T.  44        -27        44      50     18              23        Can not be Promoted
24  Rotherham U.     44        -53        24      30     24              24        RELEGATED
 

Mat

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Okay - for a bit of fun (yes, I know...) I have produced a pair of graphics that show what things could like on Saturday evening in the best case scenario (we win, Birmingham and Huddersfield draw and everyone else around us loses) and in the worse case scenario (we lose, Birmingham beat Huddersfield and everyone else around us wins). This is a way of preparing to the psychological impact of either scenario actually occurring (well that's my excuse at least). Goal differences have not been adjusted at all in these pictures.

Don't have nightmares - sleep well tonight.

Best Case Scenario:
View attachment 15112

Worse Case Scenario:
View attachment 15111
The worst case scenario worries me, as I domt really see us, Huddersfield or Birmingham getting anything on the last day, so we have to be above that line.
 
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Mat

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IMG_0046.jpeg

Huddersfield need to win and a 15 odd GD swing, Blackburn and Sheffield still not safe and need a least a draw. We know what Argyle need Birmingham need to get at least a point and help for other teams.

I expect this will be decided by a goal in the last 5 minutes of the season.
 

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Update after April 27th games


Code:
Team        PL        GD        PTS     MAX     HIGH            LOW

1   Leicester        44         46        94     100      1               2        Promoted
2   Leeds U.         45         39        90      93      2               3        Playoffs

------------------------------------------------------------------
3   Ipswich.         44         32        90      93      2               3        Playoffs
4   Southampton      45         23        84      87      4               4        Playoffs
5   Norwich C.       45         16        73      76      5               6        Safe
6   West Bromwich    45         20        72      75      5               6        Safe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7  Hull C.           45          8        69      72      6               8        Safe
8  Middlesbrough     45           7       66      69      7              11        Safe
9  Coventry C.       44         13        64      70      7              12        Safe
10  Preston N. E.    44         -5        63      69      7              12        Safe
11  Bristol C.       45          6        62      65      9              12        Safe
12  Cardiff C.       45        -14        62      65      9              12        Safe
13  Swansea C.       45         -5        57      60     11              17        Safe
14  Watford          45          2        56      59     13              18        Safe
15  Sunderland       45          0        56      59     13              18        Safe
16  Millwall         45        -11        56      59     13              18        Safe
17  Queens Park R.   45        -12        53      56     16              20        Safe
18  Stoke C.         45        -15        53      56     16              20        Safe
19  Blackburn R.     45        -16        50      53     18              22        Can not be Promoted
20  Sheffield W.     45        -26        50      53     18              22        Can not be Promoted
21  Plymouth A.      45        -12        48      51     19              23        Can not be Promoted
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

22  Birmingham C.    46        -16        47      50     21              23        Can not be Promoted
23  Huddersfield T.  45        -27        45      48     21              23        Can not be Promoted
24  Rotherham U.     44        -53        24      30     24              24        RELEGATED
 
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CarolinaGreen

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Update after April 27th games


Code:
Team        PL        GD        PTS     MAX     HIGH            LOW

1   Leicester        44         46        94     100      1               2        Promoted
2   Leeds U.         45         39        90      93      2               3        Playoffs

------------------------------------------------------------------
3   Ipswich.         44         32        90      93      2               3        Playoffs
4   Southampton      45         23        84      87      4               4        Playoffs
5   Norwich C.       45         16        73      76      5               6        Safe
6   West Bromwich    45         20        72      75      5               6        Safe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7  Hull C.           45          8        69      72      6               8        Safe
8  Middlesbrough     45           7       66      69      7              11        Safe
9  Coventry C.       44         13        64      70      7              12        Safe
10  Preston N. E.    44         -5        63      69      7              12        Safe
11  Bristol C.       45          6        62      65      9              12        Safe
12  Cardiff C.       45        -14        62      65      9              12        Safe
13  Swansea C.       45         -5        57      60     11              17        Safe
14  Watford          45          2        56      59     13              18        Safe
15  Sunderland       45          0        56      59     13              18        Safe
16  Millwall         45        -11        56      59     13              18        Safe
17  Queens Park R.   45        -12        53      56     16              20        Safe
18  Stoke C.         45        -15        53      56     16              20        Safe
19  Blackburn R.     45        -16        50      53     18              22        Can not be Promoted
20  Sheffield W.     45        -26        50      53     18              22        Can not be Promoted
21  Plymouth A.      45        -12        48      51     19              23        Can not be Promoted
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

22  Birmingham C.    46        -16        47      50     21              23        Can not be Promoted
23  Huddersfield T.  45        -27        45      48     21              23        Can not be Promoted
24  Rotherham U.     44        -53        24      30     24              24        RELEGATED
Have to say I’m resigned to going down finally. Norwich will likely play a second string, and we’ll be up against a team that’s on fire (story of the season), and we can’t score a goal for love or money.

I also don’t see it financially as that desperately bad for the club. Any extra income in the CH would be put into more players. We can hopefully reduce our wage bill next reason. Sell luxury players and start from scratch on an exciting new team of prospects. I think we’ll still be selling the stadium out if we’re pushing for playoffs or promotion. I think we got lucky and went up too early is the bottom line. If we do stay up I can’t see us not being next season’s Rotherham. Ho hum.
 

The Doctor

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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... things turned out almost as badly as the worse case scenario I posted on Friday with wins for Millwall, QPR, Stoke and Sheffield Wednesday and a draw between Huddersfield and Birmingham. That point for Birmingham means that a draw in their final fixture against Norwich could be enough for them to overtake us if we lose by a 5 goal margin...

At the top it is a battle between Ipswich and Leeds for the final automatic promotion spot and as Ipswich have a game in hand (away at Coventry on Tuesday) and a home game against Huddersfield, and Leeds, with a +7 goal difference advantage, just have a home game against the (recently imploded) Southampton, it really could go either way. But if Ipswich can take anything back to Suffolk from the Ricoh Arena then they surely will be big favorites.

The only question remaining for the play-offs, apart from whether these involve Ipswich or Leeds and the exact finishing order, is which two of Norwich, West Brom and Hull can grab the last two spots. To be in with a chance Hull have to win against Argyle but as they have the worst goal difference of those three teams they can only pip Norwich if the Canaries also lose at Birmingham and they overturn +7 goal difference, and they can only oust West Brom if the Baggies lose at home to Preston or draw, with Hull beating Argyle by an 11 goal margin. It will almost certainly be Norwich and West Brom in the play-offs, but there's a small chance that it will be Hull instead of West Brom.

At the bottom, Huddersfield are pretty much nailed on for relegation. To survive they would have to win, Birmingham would have to lose or draw and Argyle would have to lose and there would have to be a huge swing in the goal differences. And with their last game being away at Ipswich who will definitely need at least a point to secure promotion it's really difficult to imagine that this will happen (even in this league of bonkers results).

That, of course, leaves the third relegation position up for grabs...
  • Birmingham go down if they lose - quite likely
  • We go down if we lose/draw and Birmingham win or if we lose by a 5 goal margin and Birmingham draw - not unlikely
  • Blackburn go down if they lose, Birmingham win and we win - possible but unlikely
  • Sheffield Wednesday go down if they lose, Birmingham win, we win and Blackburn don't lose by goal margin that is 10 goals worse than SW - possible but very unlikely
Looking at the fixtures, Blackburn are very likely to lose (at Leicester), Sheffield Wednesday are quite likely to win (at Sunderland), we are quite likely to lose (against Hull) and Birmingham are unlikely to win but could well draw (against Norwich). If so, then the key factor becomes the margin of any defeat that we suffer.

On balance, Birmingham are in the worst position and the most likely to go down but we are pretty close. I'd feel more comfortable if we had 2-3 more goals on our goal difference and if Norwich needed to win to secure a play-off place.

Anyway, whatever will be will be. In 137 hours time things will begin to find out how things unfold...

1714319104317.png
 

JadePilgrim

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This is very optimistic, delusional, end of season, relegation threatened fan thinking; but hear me out. I would actually prefer that Hull have something to play for. Whatever happens we're bound to be camped in our own half, but if they need to come forward then there will be areas to exploit and perhaps Bundu or Waino can nick us a goal. Realistically I'll be putting my faith in Sargent, Sara and co.
 

CarolinaGreen

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This is very optimistic, delusional, end of season, relegation threatened fan thinking; but hear me out. I would actually prefer that Hull have something to play for. Whatever happens we're bound to be camped in our own half, but if they need to come forward then there will be areas to exploit and perhaps Bundu or Waino can nick us a goal. Realistically I'll be putting my faith in Sargent, Sara and co.
Absolutely anything can happen in this league. That’s the one bit of hope we have to hang on to. The problem with your theory is that we seem to have lost the ability to make counter attacks end with the ball in the net.
 

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Updated April 30th

Code:
         Team        PL         GD        PTS    MAX     HIGH            LOW

1   Leicester        45         49        97     100      1               2        CHAMPIONS
2   Ipswich.         45         33        93      96      2               3        Playoffs


------------------------------------------------------------------
3   Leeds U.         45         39        90      93      2               3        Playoffs
4   Southampton      45         23        84      87      4               4        Playoffs
5   Norwich C.       45         16        73      76      5               6        Playoffs
6   West Bromwich    45         20        72      75      5               6        Safe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7   Hull C.          45          8        69      72      6               8        Safe
8   Middlesbrough    45          7        66      69      7              11        Safe
9   Coventry C.      45         14        64      67      8              13        Safe
10  Preston N. E.    45         -8        63      66      8              13        Safe
11  Bristol C.       45          6        62      65      9              12        Safe
12  Cardiff C.       45        -14        62      65      9              12        Safe
13  Swansea C.       45         -5        57      60     13              13        Safe
14  Watford          45          2        56      59     13              17        Safe
15  Sunderland       45          0        56      59     13              17        Safe
16  Millwall         45        -11        56      59     13              17        Safe
17  Queens Park R.   45        -12        53      56     16              20        Safe
18  Stoke C.         45        -15        53      56     16              20        Safe
19  Blackburn R.     45        -16        50      53     18              22        Can not be Promoted
20  Sheffield W.     45        -26        50      53     18              22        Can not be Promoted
21  Plymouth A.      45        -12        48      51     19              23        Can not be Promoted
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

22  Birmingham C.    46        -16        47      50     21              23        Can not be Promoted
23  Huddersfield T.  45        -27        45      48     21              23        Can not be Promoted
24  Rotherham U.     44        -53        24      30     24              24        RELEGATED
 
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